Well, if that…
No contest at least re the boat's capability.
And re the rudder/skeg thing - what I didn't state but meant was that whatever a given boat comes with, be it rudder or skeg, is generally a good option for the boat. Figuring that out is part of what you are paying the designer and manufacturer for.
What About…
(i wish I just got the darn kayak i liked last week cause some friends went and I had to borrow a kayak.)
…asking your friends. Sounds like you already know people who are familiar with kayaks AND where you want to paddle. I am sure they must have an opinion. Also, find out who in your group is trading up to a new boat. Maybe they can cut you a deal on their used kayak and you could get more boat for your dollar!
Just a thought. Good luck and welcome to paddling.
thanks for all advice
got the Tsunami 140 and a skirt and safety kit today! I’m stoked!- some one recommended conyak as a group in Ct- just found out these were folks on water at demoday- i’ll pass on those dudes and the pomposity- thanks agin
congrads!!!
I’ll bet you’ll be a happy camper! You DID get the rudder, eh?
good luck and don’t fergit the lessons!!!
steve
Don’t condemn the group
for the actions of a few.
Connyak is a big club with lots of members. Some of them are indeed pompous. I’m not a member, but I have paddled with some of them in the past. Their “expert” trip leaders made some poor trip plans and decisions enroute - in fairness, it was due to the trip being on water that they weren’t familiar with, and nothing dangerous (ok, one thing dangerous).
At any rate, my point is, don’t condemn the whole club based on a negative interaction with a few individuals. Some of them are pretty nice folks.
Demo Day advice
Jake123,
I was reading this thread and was about to tell you that the folks out on the water were members of ConnYak, not North Cove staff, when I saw you had learned that. The ConnYak rescue team volunteers their time. They are out on the water all day rescuing paddlers who get in trouble. Some years they rescue around 20 paddlers a day, fewer other years. So, don’t blame a North Cove Outfitters “sales person”–they are usually not out on the water and the event would be difficult to hold without all the ConnYak volunteers on the water.
I don’t know what the context was for the advice you were given, but taking your slant on the conversation as gospel, someone was having a bad day. They are not paid as experts and are not poising as such. Everyone has opinions- look at the arguments in the PNet postings. Someone says “red” and the next five postings say “blue”, followed with five more saying “red”. A person who paddles all day (or for two full days) to protect others at a demo day is a credit to the paddling community, even if they offended you with their advice or attitude. May I respectfully suggest you do not judge a club of about 200 members over one conversation with one member-especially since you misconstrued the roles of “volunteer rescuer” with “staff” and “rescuer” with “expert” ConnYak members are never billed as the “experts” at the Demo Days and most would decline that label anyway.
I joined ConnYak about five years ago and have found the members to be extremely generous with their time and help. They taught me to roll my kayak. Members give each other help at pool sessions in the winter and at ponds from the late spring through the fall. I now count a number of members as good friends. Like any group there is a wide range of abilities and competence. I was not at the Demo Days as I was at my father’s memorial service and hosting out of town guests. Many other years I have attended.
Since I mentioned North Cove Demo Days by name, there are also demo days held by The Small Boat Shop, Wilton Outdoor Sports and Collinsville Canoe and Kayak if one lives nearer to them. We are lucky in our small state to have as many excellent stores.
Enjoy your new kayak,
Dave
ruddered kayak
hi…i’ll chip in with my opinion here …Thers NO law that says YOU HAVE TO USE THE RUDDER ON A RUDDERED BOAT, it’s there if you need it. 2nd, most experts ,IMHO, will always try to push you into a boat that you can “grow” with, not really a bad thing either. i vote you should’ve ignored the “xpert” and bought the 14’ if thats all you could afford at the time.
PS : how far would u travel to buy a boat ? i have a 15.5 ft Cape lookout w/ rudder for sale. i live n upstate NY , near lake ontario.
Re Paddling Clubs
We resisted joining our local paddling club, Kayak Newfoundland and Labrador, for years. Finally, we did join a couple of years ago, and I really regret not having done so much sooner. We've made good friends, had the benefit of some excellent free instruction in paddling and rescue skills, taken part in group paddles we wouldn't have tackled for the first time on our own and generally had new windows of opportunity opened for us at every turn. The expert paddlers - and we have some who've earned that 'expert' tag in the very challenging conditions that coastal Newfoundland presents - have, without exception, been helpful and encouraging to anyone at any level who wants to learn.
If there are a few PIAs around the group you join, just avoid them - we've found that we've buddied up with folks whose paddling styles and attitudes match ours. Most clubs, you'll find, have sort of "clubs within clubs", as people of various levels of skill and particular interests get together to do things. Take your time, and you'll find one of those sub-clubs that's a good fit.
well said
dave- condemning the group for one guy- not good. i bet there are plenty of good folks if there are 200 members. i should give them a go- thanks for enlightening me.
Attitudes
Good to read that you'll give that club a try. As above ConnYak members, including the guy who hit you the wrong way, were out there giving up a day of their weekend so that you could get on the water to be offended in the first place. One incident doesn't make that less valuable.
As to the conversation - if I decided never to deal with anyone who I thought had their head up their posterior about some aspect of paddling, I'd have missed being exposed to a lot of really valuable skills and learning. Yeah, the guy may have overshot the mark according to some on what level of boat you can get started with. But I'd bet that same person has invested a ton of time and money in gaining skills that they regularly share with others in the club, often for free. And if you paddle with ConnYak they will as happily turn around and share with you as well.
As an example, a couple instructors I know have some opinions about how to teach rolling that could be considered a little narrow, to be kind. But they still know a helluva lot more than me and can paddle circles around any skill level I'll probably ever achieve, as well as being excellent teachers. So I'll take any complaints about my rolling - the sum of what I can learn from them is far more valuable.
Your “Idea” About The Boat Is Fine…
for the places and conditions you described. Don't get too caught up with the gearhead talk. Developing skills is far more important than the length of your 14' boat vs someone's 16' plus.
Of course, I am biased since I down to one plastic 14' mystic (with bulkheads) and gotten rid of five 16' "sea kayaks." I've been out with folks with the "real" seakayaks that I wouldn't go out with again 'cause it aint' that their boats weren't up to par but the drivers clearly weren't.
Have fun, learn, be safe and don't take this stuff too seriously. :)
sing
The Dealer was Right
Jake,
I hate to disagree with the majority of opinions on Paddling.net, but it seems I always do. They will be quick to call me an elitist, but frankly I think your dealer was giving you good advice to get a larger more seaworthy kayak. He should have perhaps steered you towards the longer plastic sea kayaks like the Tempests that would be more seaworthy and closer to your price range.
I see that you bought the 14 footer. At least it has bulkheads and you are using a skirt. Now make sure you know how to roll or do a wet rescue. They pulled a kayaker out of the Thames River a few weeks ago. Fortunately they got to him before died of hypothermia, but he was out there up to his neck a long time.
You really need to be careful out there. I paddle the exact waters you plan on taking to. There is no such thing as safe protected waters in Long Island Sound or the Connecticut River. Both have strong currents, lots of large boat traffic, and winds that can kick up unexpectedly.
When you join ConnYak you will see the types of boats the more experienced paddlers have and may wish you took some of the dealer’s advice. The ConnYak guys may restrict the trips you are allowed to go on.
Anyway, be careful. If you take to paddling the tidal waters of Connecticut you will soon desire a larger boat. Hopefully the dealer will allow you to trade in your boat for a bigger boat when you are ready.
Personally, I do not think $3,000 is all that expensive for the serious piece of equipment that you are trusting your life with in serious ocean conditions. This is not a matter of elitism, just practical seamanship. I wanted to take up paddling moat of my life living here on the ocean. I simply could not afford to do it at the level I knew was needed to be safe out there. It was not until I reached my mid-30s and had saved up some cash that I took to kayaking with the respect it deserves.
By the way, a good safe piece of water with plenty of other paddlers in similar recreational kayaks is Bluff Point in Groton. just stay behind the barrier beach and you should not get into too much trouble. Be sure to say hi if you see me in a white surfski. I am out on the water somewhere if you see a white Subaru Forester with roof rack cradles set very close together.
staying truly dry in a kayak
is not a marginal possibility, its an impossiblity–lol
my first sea kayak was a perception
Vizcaya—with a rudder and in the three years I owned it, I used the rudder once.
there is a certain element
in sea kayaking that thinks that you have to spend a ton of money to enjoy it and be safe--The kind of mindset that says truely serious kayakers only paddle kevlar and glass. There is a certain snobbery about the boats and equipment that is a kind of one upmanship and in the case of most of us can be ignored--I would suggest that as a beginner dropping 3000--3500 on a boat would not be wise for you, unless you are Donald Trump or in his income bracket in which case you should get the 450$ paddle to go with the boat.
your choice of the Tsnumi and/or the Looksha sounds fine. You can also go used and Rotomolded---the only real difference is that F/G and kevelar tend to paddle a little smoother than the RM of the same design once you get the bottom of the RM sandpapered from too many beach landings---I would suggest however that the F/G doesn't paddle 1500 dollars faster. Although they are nice they are hardly necessary either for safety or enjoyment. Kind of like a Corolla verses a Lexus--they will both get you to the same place one is more luxurious and the other less expensive but both do the trick.
BTW was the guy who said you needed the 3000+ kayak trying to sell you one?