yup
Tommy’s right, the Magic is a more comfortable ride in those conditions than the Osprey and my experience with it has been just like his - it is very well mannered in wind and waves.
However, I have had better luck than Tommy paddling the Osprey in rough conditions. It is twitchier, if that makes any sense, so you have to be able to relax, stay loose, and let the hull do its job underneath you. I also use partial spray covers on my boats in adverse conditions to reduce the wind effect and to keep water from slopping in, although that has rarely been a problem.
Wenonah Wilderness:
http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2381618840050807370kNZiNl
Swift Osprey:
http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/1133356546050807370ypGDqS
Another Swift Osprey:
http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2348942860050807370nwXiRB
I haven’t paddled the Kestrel in bad weather, but did get to spend a little bit of time in the Peregrine in wind and waves and found it to be very easy to manage.
Regardless of what you wind up with, I’d suggest strongly considering at least a partial spray cover because if you wind up taking steep chop head on there is always a chance that even the most seaworthy boat will take a bit of slop over the bow - the bow will pop up, but if the chop is tall enough and steep enough, it won’t be quick enough to keep 100% of the water out of your boat.
Good luck!
My experience.
1. I encountered a guy in an Argosy once on Little Tupper Lake in the ADKs on a windy day. I was in my Bell Merlin II which isn’t the best big wave boat,and I was doing better than him.
2. I like my Osprey and it does well in paddling into the waves and wind and mild whitewater,but I second Tommy,it is a problem in following seas and wind-even with the seat and load adjusted.
My Hemlock Kestrel is the most wind resistant canoe I have paddled,but the low freeboard probibly would be a problem in waves.
Turtle
Kestrel
Mark, I paddle a hemlock kestrel in coastal Everglades and Biscayne Bay. I am 5’6" and weigh 160lbs. The boat fits me well and I am able to control it in all wind directions it is very responsive. This speaks highly of the boat as I am not as good a paddler as many posting. In winds of 20-25 knots I can still make progress with a full load of camping gear.
I did get Dan Cooke to make me a spray deck and it has been very useful when loaded for a weeklong trip, it helps keep water out of the boat when crossing the shallow wind swept bays.
Before the kestrel I tried a wenonah vagabond and a bell Merlin II but the kestrel works best for me,
My experience is a little different
with the Hemlock Peregrine (big bro to Kestrel). In a tailwind it generally holds course but if it does get off course its a little sticky to get back on course. It does not respond downwind to any stroke in the bow(most boats dont) but requires a sharp stern draw…and you have to really twist yourself around to reach the most sternward you can.
The Curtis Nomad (Vagabond would be your size) is more easily brought into line if it errs. (Hard to find boat). (but not impossible)
The RapidFire similarly is easy to bring back stern into the wind.
Now is the Ospreys behavior a product of its asymmetry?
Kneeling Required ???
Do you think that the Kestrel requires kneeling to get the kind of stability you want in choppy waters? I ask because I do have quite a bit of discomfort kneeling in my Argosy (very tight/painful in the instep). With the higher seat in a Yellowstone Solo I seemed to be able to kneel without pain. Do you have any idea how the seat height in the Kestrel compares with the Argosy or Yellowstone Solo?
Thanks for the feedback.
Mark
Seats are adjustable
There is nothing that says God will strike you down if you raise or lower a seat. I hate the Argosy seat and simply bolted it where it fits me best. Yes fractions of inches matter.
And if you have instep cramping while kneeling a simple change to a more flexible sole on your shoe may work for you. It does for me.
If you want to sit you can lower your seat down…the rub is that bolts sufficiently long may be hard to find.
In seas the idea of kneeling is to lower your center of gravity. Low seats do the same for sitting paddlers but then you cannot kneel without a stuck foot.
and remember that your head has to stay in…flexible hips always.
Hull Speed
Kim,
I’m guessing your asymetry comment was tounge in cheek? Anybody seen Glen?
But since I consider the Osprey the perfect tripping boat, if only it would handle following seas better, I’ve given it lot’s of thought.
What I think is that the Osprey hits it’s hull speed hard. Where other boats might accelerate down a wave the Osprey never does. So the waves keep rolling in from behind and the stern gets shove forward to one side or the other.
It’s a shame because the Osprey is my go to boat for almost any other conditions.
kneeling
I think Kim summed it up well in the post above. I have lowered the seat enough to make it stable while seated and have attached a wenonah foot brace. I can get my feet under the seat using a low profile shoe I use the Teva sling kings. In rough water I get the best performance kneeling not only for stability but to put the hull on edge to aid in turning. Plus, I suffer from sciatica and can't stand sitting or kneeling to long so have to change positions on a long trip.
BTW: Hemlock can sell you the long seat drops and they have 6" machine screws should you not want a kneeling option. There are various seat options so speak with David about your preferences and he can set the canoe up to your liking. He can even install a footbrace for you.
my pet theory
Messing around in lake Michigan surf has taught me to trim back till the bow planes. A plowing bow has lots more resistance than the high rising stern. ergo the stern comes around. Similar in a tandem boat but not as pronounced. Trim back radically and power down that wave.
I think the higher the speed, the more…
... the tendency to broach. Just like the root cause of weathercocking, I believe the basic problem is this: As the boat moves forward, water pressure against the widening-portion of the hull at the bow increases. By the same token, water against the narrowing portion at the back of the boat is simply "falling back" against the hull, so the water pressure applied is less. The faster the boat moves, the greater the pressure increase at the front, and the greater the pressure reduction at the back. Thus, there's a compound increase in the difference between pressure against the front versus the back as speed increases.
My guide-boat hits hull speed at about 6 mph, and it's quite a "wall", but even on the small waves we have here I've surfed up to 13 or 14 mph when I've had the GPS along, and I am certain I've gone a little faster a few times on bigger waves when I had no GPS to check speed. As such speeds are reached, the tendency to broach rapidly becomes extreme, but in a rowboat that sort of thing is much easier to control than in a solo canoe, and the worst that can happen is that I won't be able to supply full propulsive power while ruddering. I've never been in any danger of getting turned sideways, but the amount of force it takes to keep the boat going straight is enormous. I'd never be able to reach anything close to those speeds in a canoe simply because I wouldn't be able to supply a ruddering force even remotely strong enough to keep the stern where it belongs (unless I were positioned very near the back of the boat, like peterj says he does when surfing. Surfing for me is incidental when I happen to be going the right direction rather than my purpose, so I doubt I'd ever try that).
By the way, I see that peterj's observation would still be true if my theory is correct. It would be interesting to hear from someone who "really knows."