possible solution
So perhaps rather than try to get a one-boat-does-all (and ends up being a limitation…) I might be better getting a Scupper for diving from and short trips (and accept that it might not be as fast as I hoped).
And then later on buy a kayak for speed - such as a nice surfski (Mako/Mark-1 … if I can ever get one…).
Also I can see how the Scupper goes and I reckon there will be a good secondhand market if needed (although it seems pretty cheap at that price compared to other kayaks I am considering)
Cheers
Ed
The seating on the Prowler
was fine, but the footwells were constricting and would cut into the outside of my ankles. Also not enough legroom for paddlers with a longer inseam. Ocean Kayak has since addressed that problem with the Prowler 13, which has more legroom than the 15.
Me, I’m only 5’10" and about 205 lbs, but I have extra wide triple E feet, so maybe that was a factor. I have read numerous times though, that the Scupper seating area (not the footwells), is constricting for some. Bottom line is to paddle some potential yaks first to see how they feel.
I love my Tourer but they are not cheap and harder to find used but a little research may turn one up.
I’ll throw another monkey wrench in the mix - I’ve heard a lot of good things about the new Redfish and Marquesa from Heritage Kayaks. The Redfish is the outfitted version, but you can buy a Marquesa (same hull design) at a cheaper price, and outfit it yourself. The Marquesa also has more color options for the bright colors - you might want to be seen out on the water.
The word is that this boat is faster than a Tarpon 140, and stable enough to stand in. Price would be only just slightly higher than a new Scupper Pro.
It has a higher side profile, so would be more affected by wind, but any boat you buy will not be perfect. The Tourer has some hull slap, the Scupper is a wetter ride with less initial stability, there is always some kind of tradeoff.
Try before you buy will really help your decision. I’ll give an impression of the Cobra Expedition tonight.
Chuck
Cobra Expedition paddle…
I took the Expedition out on a local lake today in varied conditions. The wind was blowing pretty strongly most of the day, but it was calm near the end of the day after the rain moved through.
I am used to 2 very stable kayaks that I usually use, the Tourer and the Prijon Yukon Tour, and the Expedition was a little tippy. There was much less of a rock solid stable feel right in the middle like them.
I enjoy paddling, but I kayak to fish so the stability factor comes in here too. I would not recommend the Expedition as a fishing boat, it is a pure paddling boat - but it could be grown into to adapt to fishing, and the last reviewer of the boat seems to do that quite well.
As the day wore on, I really noticed how nice it was to paddle. It is fast and smooth, tracks very well - my boat doesn’t have a rudder, but I had no problems. A little lean and a sweep helped with turning, but as already mentioned, its strength is straight line paddling. I am used to some hull slap with my Tourer, which I really don’t mind much, but the Expedition had none at all, it is extremely quiet.
For 90 percent of the day, I just left the venturi valve closed and there was a lot less standing water in the footwells than I expected, right on par with the Tourer and a lot of sit on tops. Maybe an inch and a half tops. The waves in the wind got anywhere from 6 inches to a foot, and in the highest conditions, I opened the valve and more water came in and receded some as I paddled steadily.
It is a low profile boat and I can definitely see where it would be a wetter ride in stronger conditions.
Overall, I really liked the Expedition quite a bit, and I think it is a sit on top I can grow into a little, which can’t be said for some. It is probably the closest thing to a sea kayak I will paddle due to my finances for the time being - it is a joy to paddle and I didn’t want to come in at the end of the day.
It would be a great distance boat for big lakes, and rougher situations if you don’t mind a wet ride. Most of my use will be on this particular lake, but I’ll have a chance to take it out on the Chesapeake Bay this summer. If it were loaded down some, I’m sure the stabiltiy would improve.
Bottom line for me is for a sit on top, it is a sweet paddling boat and fast.
I’ve never paddled a Scupper, but I did paddle a Prowler. I would take the Prowler over the Expedition for all around use and diving. The Prowler is a more stable, predictable platform. For pure paddling in a plastic sit on top, though, I’d go with the Expedition.
Confused, Portinfer? So am I.
I would say, see if you can paddle a Scupper, see if you can paddle an Expedition. If not, I’d probably go with the Scupper Pro, because it has a tankwell for your diving gear, and will overall be stabler for you.
Good Luck with your decision!!
Chuck
cheers
Thanks Chuck - a good report and interesting too…
As for the tank well for gear : I freedive so have minimal kiet. THe weights I use are light and would be looped in the footwell. This is about 8 to 10 pounds of lead = might make it more stable ?
The rest of the kit is just a wetsuit (no problem with a wet ride) and some fins that can be strapped on the outside anywhere. Somtimes a speargun but again that can go on the outside…
So after that report I am leaning towards the Expedition again - chances are I’ll be using it for pure paddling on calm days or for diving on calm days. Either way not in choppy water…
Still not 100% sure which one to buy !
I can try them but I would have to pay for a flight over to the mainland and book a hotel… and so on… so I will be buying sight unseen.
Did the Expedition have more leg room that the other ones that you have tried ? - I’m 6’2".
Thanks for the info… decision time looming.
Cheers
Ed
readfish
By the way I saw readfish and searched for that instead of heritage kayaks…
They look gorgeous !
http://www.redfishkayak.com/kayaks.htm
Anyone tried them ?
Any reviews ?
Maybe in the future !
Ed
Foot room…
The foot room on the expedition was fine and I don’t think you’d have a problem. I rested my feet on the second footwell, and my legs were just slightly bent which is perfect - the first footwell was actually a little too far for me even with legs straight out, so if you have longer legs, it might be the right length for you. I also did something I do on my Tourer as well, and that was put my feet on the third position so my legs were really bent - having to produce a more vertical stroke I could really dig in and crank the boat. I like to do this to change things up once in a while.
I think any weight you add will stabilize the boat, so it would help. In terms of tippiness, compared to my other 2 yaks, it is a little tippy, but compared to other “tippy” sea kayak type boats, it would probably be considered stable. Its a performance tradeoff.
Speed, quiet, low profile - all impressed me, I can deal with the wet ride.
Here is another idea for you - if you go over to the kayakfishingstuff website (type in that name on your search), they have a TON of information on sit on tops and reviews of a lot of them. Here is the good part though, they have a store you can buy kayaks from, and they will ship anywhere, so check it out.
If you do buy from them, tell them “Fishnmusicn” sent you - thats the name I usually use and I haven’t figured out how to change my username here yet.
Hope this helps -
Chuck
cheers all
From reading around it looks as if there are folk who like and dislike the Cobra Expedition - I think that it will be good for me so am going to buy it and save some cash for other kayaks after I see what I like and dislike about the Expedition.
What convinced me the most is a guy in NZ who mailed me saying that he used to run a kayak centre and has used alot of kayaks/sot’s. He went over the pro’s and con’s and as he is a freediver/spearfisherman he gave a more focused review for my needs. He said that the Scupper is good but as soon as you want to go to farther away places then you need a faster kayak.
Anyway it may be wrong but at least it will give me a good starting point and I can work out where to go from there.
Next up - what paddle ?
A 210cm Lettman 1 type wing paddle ?
I think that Custom Kayak make a L1 type paddle with reinforced neck called the ‘Ridgeback’ - they might at least be able to post that to me for less than 150% more than the cost of th paddle (Mark-1 = £400 / shipping=£750 !).
Any other recommendations ?
I figured that I would have to learn to paddle anyway and why not learn with a wing paddle - meant to be more efficient and all…
Cheers
Ed
Expedition
Good luck with your Expedition. I think you’ll like the speed and storage ability. I may look at buying a wing paddle down the road. From reading the reviews as well and even paddling the boat, I realized this is a kayak that a lot of people could either like a lot or dislike. Could you do me a favor and forward the email you received from
The New Zealand guy to me - being a new Expedition owner, I’d be very curious in what he had to say. You can reach me at charlespeacock@netzero.net. Thanks and Happy Paddling -
Chuck
Ocean Kayak Sprinter…
If you have a Ocean Kayak dealer and you must if you can get the Scupper; you might want to consider the Ocean Kayak Sprinter as a great compromise between kayak and surfski.
I have a Scupper and I like it alot…but I sometimes I like to cover some serious distances so I bought a 20ft 9in Elan Fiberglass Surfski…however, it was a little tippy so I needed a “transition.” The Sprinter was perfect…it can do almost everything the Scupper can do(does not have the nice big tankwell) … but is faster…just a thought…most people don’t even know this model exists because for quite awhile I guess it was only available in New Zealand.
Good luck!
patty
Thanks but I checked with them and they don’t sell that model…
I found it on some NZ sites and it looks quite good - also a bit about it in Hullspeed magazine in the journal section.
Going to go for the Expedition and see how that goes for a while then think about saving up for a surfski - who knows in a years time they might be more readily available here in the UK / Europe…
Cheers
Ed
deliverance
Well I get it tomorrow !
'Bout time too…
Anyway - looking at getting the rest of the gear from another shop. THis is what they say :
---------------
Hi Ed,
Thanks for your e-mail.
A split paddle would be easier to ship and there is no real difference in
performance. The carbon wing paddles are stronger and lighter than the
f/glass ones. I would recommend a carbon split Lettmann I (R1000). For
someone your height(6’2") a 218cm would be a good length, the split has about a
7cm range so I would say a 213-220 would be great.
Bouyancy aids cost R370 and a paddle leash is R30.
Let me know if you are interested and I will get a shipping quote for the
package.
----------------------------
Does this advice seem about right ?
Costs are in SA Rand… (divide by 10 to get rought pound sterling price so R1000 = £100 -ish)
Anyone got any paddle advice ?
Any PFD advice ?
Leash advice ?
Cheers
Ed
colour
Right - well the kayak is here !
However it is pink - ie pretty faded…
Anyone got any advice on what to do when a shop sells you a brand new kayak that has obviuosly been sitting around in the sun ?
I feel like I have been taken advantage of because I couldn’t physically go and choose it…
Ed
take it back
I haven’t followed this thread too closely so - I am assuming it was a new kayak from a kayak shop, not a privately seller.
I would take it back if it were me - considering it was a new kayak.
poly kayaks (any plastic for that matter) has a bad tendency to degrade from UV light. This may also make the plastic pretty brittle over long exposures.
If you do keep it or get a new one protect it with 303 protectant.
percentage
The shop is offering me a 20% rebate on the price that I paid (£100).
The final price with shipping was something like £689 - so this would bring it down to about £589.
Do you think this is a fair solution ?
It will allow me to buy a nice paddle I guess…
Any thoughts ?