confused following chop

Relax or Study
There have been two distinct approaches to the various posts on this thread. One approach indicates all one has to do is, as Celia says, “All I had to do was allow it to wander around a bit and take opportune moments to do light corrections. And relax.” This implies that there is really nothing to it.



On the other hand there are technical approaches including bow rudders, and bow draws, and exact torso movement, as salty states. So apparently relaxation is not sufficient. It is fine to allow the boat to wander in open water, but I find the following conditions in more confined channels where I do not want to wander.



My own experience is that these skills are not easy to learn, despite being relaxed. So tomorrow I scheduled a lesson on the bow draw and bow rudder. Also, I did not realize, as LeeG states, that the sweep is most effective in the last 30 degrees next to the boat. Could this be correct?

stern rudder
There’s a reason why a rudder is at the stern and not 45degrees off to one side. It’s the furthest aft point providing the most leverage on the kayak.



So when you go to do a sweep stroke it becomes more effective the furthest aft you can apply the sweeping motion towards the hull. The only problem is that you are more destabilized in waves twisted around applying a motion that puts you in a postion that does not have much of a bracing motion. When the paddle is extended out to the side you get some turning effort and LOTs of bracing effort so it naturally is the default setting in waves. An ineffective turning stroke.



This is the problem with resorting to sweep strokes for all turning efforts and why stern rudder strokes are used too much in waves. The stern rudder provides more bracing motion but it’s passive and slows you down. More often you end up attempting brute force directional control as a little blade is trying to over come the entire hull shape being moved by a wave. It’s a losing battle comparing a 1/2 square foot of blade against a 16’ kayak. Especially when that blade is linked through small joints that didn’t evolve for holding paddles.



So IF you are going to use a sweep stroke in waves it has to be EFFECTIVE,and that means being comfortable with torquing your torso all the way around with the ability to flip the blade face immediately over into a low brace if the sweep pulls you over towards a capsize. Or if the wave tips you to the down wave side where your blade ISN’T you have to swing yourself way over to the other side to brace and lose directional control. This is why folks resort to stern rudders, slowing down, sprinting, slowing down, and zig zagging excessively. It’s like getting slammed by moguls and not working with them but at least you have a brace working in waves.



So for controlling direction in waves, instead of putting yourself into positions where the stroke leaves you far from a brace (opposite side blade in the air) or caught in the water (sweep stroke blade facing hull having to switch sides INSTANTLY) try a different turning stroke that has a brace immediately available.



With a draw stroke you can go from a draw to a high brace simply by dropping the opposite side hand and flattening the blade to the water. The brace is right there without having to flip blade sides. If the brace has to go to the other side your torso isn’t twisted around so your body is lined up more effectively for the brace.



The idea for practicing all those draw strokes at different directions is to be able to switch the blade from power to release with your torso twisted to any direction. The reason for leaning the draw while moving is to provide directional control WHILE MOVING without having to torque your torso around. It’s like the difference between being able to step sideways while walking forward and having to TURN to the side once, then TURN back to the center then TURN forward like a robot. It’s like the difference between a car with two wheel steering and four wheel steering.



You can steer anywhere you put the blade, not just in the back where the rudder goes. Your steering efforts can be quick, a draw that can immediately transfer to a forward stroke or high brace, a QUICK sweep where the blade is put in the water at the 4:00 position with a quick sweep to 5:00. NOT a forward stroke that goes into a sweep that ENDS at 4:00.

If you need a turning effort to the left NOW from a right blade sweep don’t bother starting that blade forward in a power stroke, put it back there NOW and take it out.

Anywho,play with a draw stroke while under way. It’ll go a long way to being able to paddle next to sea walls and other paddlers without zigzagging.

Bow rudder

– Last Updated: Mar-13-08 9:00 AM EST –

I tried to find a simple bow rudder example on line but all the examples are of an extreme bow rudder turn where the paddle is put near your body out on an angle and by leaning away from the turn, the kayak pivots around the paddle (hopefully).

All you want to do or try is ... as your paddle is forward to take a stroke, angle it away from the boat for a few seconds and you can steer the boat that way. If your right side of the paddle is forward, you would tilt the right side of the blade on an angle forward keeping the paddle next to the bow in your normal paddling position. You can help it with a slight lean away from the turn (towards the left). I use this all the time for corrections and the nice thing is that you can just continue along with your paddle stroke expending no real energy. It will not slow down your forward motion. Try it in flat water until you get it down because if you dig the paddle in a little too deep it can pull you and maybe a capsize if you're not ready for it. It's my most used techniques. You have to experiment with it as far as depth of paddle blade and distances from the boat etc. All boats will react a bit different. I do it with both GP and Euro.

Didn’t mean it was brainless

– Last Updated: Mar-12-08 9:10 AM EST –

This is an extreme example. While a hernia repair is a piece of cake to a surgeon who does them all the time, I wouldn't trust the very smart psychologist who lives next door to me to do it.

Learning a new paddling response is only "easy" for people that are those annoying naturals. The rest of us have to learn and practice and learn again a few times.

The methods of managing your boat that are mentioned above may or may not be "easy" for you to learn. But once you really have them, they can be easy to execute in chop because you can work with the boat rather than having to really manhandle it.

I loved my Squall, and the confidence I got from that boat is what really what made my interest in serious sea kayaking. No kidding, I sniffled a little when it was driven away on a rack to a new home. But my time paddling it left behind some things I had to change and relearn in order to handle other boats.

“…this implies…”
“All I had to do was allow it to wander around a bit and take opportune moments to do light corrections. And relax.” This implies that there is really nothing to it.

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No, what you gotta do is relax your paddle grip so you can pivot the blade quickly from catch, to power, to release. And a loose paddle grip will inform you how to line your torso up. It’s easy to fool oneself that a stroke is effective because your grip is tight.



You’re stuck with seeing steering confined to some variation of a forward stroke with a strong bracing component with lots of paddle grip. The challenge here is to learn blade control in other angles of approach that don’t involve squeezing the shaft and pulling the blade back/around with whole torso movements.



Try this on flat water, paddle straight, get up a little speed so you can coast for a few boat lengths, hold the paddle vertically in the water on one side slicing through the water,with one hand. That way you don’t have to torque your torso around and you can butt balance. Play with the blade slicing one way and another. Try a loose grip and tight grip. At some point you can let the shaft rotate a little in the water from the skin shifting against your bones. Not so tight that you’re forcing it in line, not so loose that it slices out or in. That kind of grip is where the water teaches you how to line up your wrist and forearm.



Later when you get both hands on the paddle shaft and the blade is slicing through the water with the blade as vertical as you feel comfortable that loose grip will line up your wrists,forearms,shoulder and torso.



Don’t focus on “just relax” as much as “moments for light corrections” because you can’t fight the leverage of a 16’ boat against tiny joints holding a paddle.

over analysis

– Last Updated: Mar-12-08 11:21 AM EST –

I find that when I over analyize a problem, whether its paddling a kayak or doing something else, I tend to get bogged down in the minutia of what I'm doing and screw up the big picture--others that I know love the minutia so if you want to take the time and effort to analyize every movement you make in order to become a better paddler, by all means go for it---if it works for you then fine---

for me I put all the stuff about the physics and theory of paddling out of my head after a bit of practice. After all this was a sport started by primitive arctic people who did it better than 90% of modern paddlers not because they were more scientific but because they had to in order to survive.

My advice to all new paddlers is to take a lesson or two then go out and paddle--and relax and enjoy it--its not really a competitive sport for most of us. And in the end you will do better by relaxing--And that doesn't mean you should give up taking lessons and going to seminars if that's what you want---I still do it and I've been paddling for quite a while. BTW let us know how your bow rudder/draw lesson goes.

lesson
Well, the instructors (who were familiar with the channel where I had the problem) and I got on the net and scanned this thread together. Then we got on the water. An excellent lesson and I learned much, mainly what I did not know.



The bow rudder was not that hard to learn but they recommended against using it in the circumstance where the boat gets picked up by a following sea and starts to carve. They said it was too easy to get tripped up by poor paddle placement.



Better was a sweep followed by stern draw. However, I had trouble getting the paddle angle just right for an effective draw. We practiced doing S turns with the paddle on one side of the boat only, transitioning between stern draw and stern rudder. Not so easy and I need more practice.

Not just the paddle angle

– Last Updated: Mar-13-08 8:29 AM EST –

The stern draw also wants a minimal amount of forward speed. (assuming that we are talking about a well back literally by the stern blade placement) If I time the stern draw at a moment when I've pretty much hit a stall, not much happens. So if you aren't getting oomph out of it, maybe try getting to that a bit sooner.

One way that I find makes it easier to get to that blade angle is to be really well rotated so that the paddle is straight alongside the boat. If you don't get around like that, it gets more difficult to feel the blade angle. That said, this can be considered to be a fairly vulnerable position, so I am not sure if the instructors had you go back this far.

As this discussion has proceeded, I have remembered more about the diff between my Squall and my current boat. And you are correct, coming in on waves was a big diff. Frankly, with the Squall I never had to learn how to handle it. As long as I got her pointed correctly at the top of something, she'd just sit straight and ride them in with nothing more than an occasional forward stroke to maintain momentum. We had a day of big stuff at the mouth of the cove once where I was mostly a passenger because of how the boat handled it.

However, my next boat didn't take care of that for me and I had to actually learn how to manage direction coming down. But then I probably couldn't have made the Squall respond with a lot of what I tend to do now, because she was so stiff. They were different boats, and they needed some different paddling.

your instruction was good
The only time I would be inclined to use a bow rudder on the ocean would be if I was going upwind in chop and kept getting knocked to lee ward or just outright pinned–



what works is a series of one or two forward sweeps on the down wind side to get forward momentum followed immeadiatly by the bow rudder on the upwind side to turn the bow into the wind. Repeat as neccesary



If you use the stern ruddering stroke your boat will slow down and you may not have enough forward speed to turn into the wind(if the breeze is strong enough) Obviously this is not a problem when going downwind in chop and the stern ruddering stroke adds additional stability that you won’t get with the bow stroke.