Okay then what are you afraid of?
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I think mostly being a dead weight in the trainee group, having to be rescued all the time. They’re managing it better than me so I get nervous and hold back to avoid tipping in. I need more practice to get the feel of it and develop the skill and that’s why I was thinking I’d try to put in this practice time on my own so I’m more confident of holding the edge. You see what I mean?
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So for me, as a beginner, learning to edge was the last skill that I wanted to focus on. It was psychologically hard knowing that if I tipped over/capsized, it’s going to be rigmarole to get back into the boat, pumped the boat out, and reskirt, etc. So, I focused first on getting my self assisted rescues down to minimize the time involved. Then I learned to roll (the best of all). After learning rescues and recovery skills, I could then focus wholehearted in playing/practicing with finesse skills like edging and strokes. Capsizing while practicing these skills is no big deal as you can quickly recover and continue on.
Just my approach when I was a beginner and mostly self taught.
-sing
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Thanks, yes I can see the logic in that. I’d need teaching and someone to come out into the sea with me for both of those though. The edging in the shallows is something I thought I could try on my own. It might not work but it seems worth a go. If it doesn’t work I’ll look at those other ideas.
Sing is correct. The fasters way to learn kayaking skills and the best “1st class” you can learn is rolling. In Greenland the kids are taught to roll before they are taught to paddle. Skill and comfort in rolling make ALL other aspects of kayaking fear-free.
I too consider myself to be an armature. But I made a point of getting to know as many professionals as I could in my first few years of kayaking. Every one of them told me the same thing. learn to roll 1st. As a “grade schooler” teaching kindergarteners I cannot profess to be some excellent instructor, but what I can say is now that I understand the foundational principals of rolling, I have been able to teach quite a few new students and so far my success is very high. I do a class I call “roll before lunch”.
It’s what it sounds like. Students come with me to the lake in the early hours and I have a class I teach where my goal is for them to have a good roll before lunch time,
But my focus is aimed at removing their fear about 90% and the last 10% is the rolling itself. It’s been super successful. The class is set at a 5 hour period and in only 2 cases have students not been able to roll before lunch time. Those 2 were one man who has an inner ear problem and nearly any head down movement made him vomit and the other was a man who could not or would not move his legs and lower body the way I told him to. His kayak is a bit too small for him, and when offered other larger kayaks to try he refused, just digging in with the “I can’t” line over and over. Well, if you say you can’t and you mean it, you get to be right.
But every other student I have given this little call to has been doing a basic roll in less then 5 hours and most in quite a bit less.
As a swimmer if you do body movement outside your kayak that mimic the movements you need to do in the kayak, and get very comfortable with them, once you get back into the kayak you’ll probably have no fear of splashing into the water head first from the side, the front or the back.
As soon as they are very comfortable dropping into the water from a seated position and simply getting into the correct body position, most students are rolling inside of about 15 minutes. 4 hours to get super comfortable doing “water paly”. Less then 1 hour to learn to roll back up. That’s how it’s been with the very large majority of those I have taught.
But if you can roll, leaning and edging are not any big deal and the idea is to get close to the point you’d capsize and see how to maintain that hull angle in your own kayak. If you “fail” you are back up and trying again in 3-5 seconds and so it’s a very fast way to learn edge turning, brace turning, sculling, back paddling, and kayak handling in waves. And all further training is fear-free because if you flip over you just roll back up.
In my post above I told you how I use a rope on a tree and such a drill is outstanding to learn the edging skill and so I do not say you should not do it. And if you do it will rocket you to levels of kayak control that make you look very experienced very quickly.
But if you want the “big picture”, the best way to learn every aspect of sea kayaking, the best 1st skill you can learn is actually rolling. Even before you learn a forward stroke.
Yes, I would love to be able to roll. It’s not something I can do on my own though. I’d need a class for that and there isn’t one locally. I do know a few good paddlers who have struggled to learn to roll and who still don’t have a confident roll. It’s perhaps something that is easier for kids to pick up than adults? But if I could roll, I can see that there would be no need to have any fear of capsizing.
DO NOT PUSH UP OFF THE BOTTOM it is a habit that will get you in trouble. use the waters surface tension and not the bottom.
If your mind thinks. that the bottom is your safety, then that is were you’ll attempt to place the paddle if you get tense.
it will cause a broken paddle or a failed brace or a failed roll, practice in shallow water to make it easier to empty and get back in to try again , not to use the bottom as any part of recovery
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Rolling is just deep bracing … like saying you can’t roll when swimming
it’s just another stroke directing the forces.
I’m not sure I understand what you mean about pushing up off the bottom. Do you mean the idea of practising edging in the shallow water at the shoreline? My thought was that if I go too far I’ll basically fall over. But I wouldn’t be reaching for the bottom in any dynamic move to ‘save’ myself. I’d just fall over but it wouldn’t matter because it’s shallow.
THIS is what I am replying to
OK, let’s say you are edging in shallow water and then you fall over. So you can reach down with your paddle (or hand if shallow enough) and get back upright. When you push back up, there are things you can incorporate that will help build toward a roll at some later date. For example, when pushing back up, keep your head down so your head comes up last … and read about the hip flick (also known by other names) to help bring yourself back up. Others here may have further suggestions.
At any rate, edging in shallow water can help build toward further skills than just edging. It’s a good start I think.
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if you fall over … just reach the paddle up to get the surface tension an use that to support your deep brace and rotate you and the kayak up … and your rolling
if you don’t get all the way up … try getting a breath … and try again
no need to get out as long as you can get a breath.
oh … and … relax
Ah yes, I can see how you thought that. I didn’t phrase it clearly. What I meant is that once I’d fallen over and was lying on the sand, I wouldn’t need to wet exit, I’d just be able to push upright - not that I’d try to ‘brace’ against the fall by reaching for the bottom.
Thank you. Hadn’t thought of that, but I can see how it could be good hip flick practice.
I wonder if it is easy to get back upright by pushing down on the bottom with your hands?
Has anybody here done it succesfully and can comment on that?
I think you’re being sarcastic though it’s always a bit hard to tell online. I’m not sure you missed the context.
If I were tall and lean, I would give it a try. But at 5’5" It would have to be all “head down and hip flick” and no hands.
I have tried it once but dit not succeed. But I don’t have a decent roll.
Possibly for someone with a good “Sweep” and “C-to-C” roll this may be doable? But if you can pull that off, you probably do not have problems with heeling your boat at all.
For someone with problems with heeling and no rollings skills at all, this may be too difficult to pull off and thus not a realistic help or practice method? i just wonder.
The off the bottom thing is a good method for failure. The problem is that the bottom is not there when you really need
it.
A dock if it could be reached uo might be the right height , another kayak floating on the water might be the right height
You would need it the most as you are almost up. If you let your mind think that the bottom is your safety back up it will always be too deep. Rely on the surface tension and as you get better you can rely on any part of the water and do slash or green water rolls . or just scull up.
Forget the bottom for help.
Best Wishes
Roy
I think perhaps you’re picturing something else. I’m not planning on using the bottom for anything. What I’m thinking of is being literally at the water’s edge, in just enough inches of water that the boat floats with my weight in - a few inches, nothing more than that. And in those few inches I will try to feel where I can hold an edge. That’s my only goal with this. If I go too far, it won’t matter because I will just be lying on the sand at the water’s edge.
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