Pads-Bell vs Cooke
Having both, I will report that the Bells are about a quarter inch thinner than Dan Cookes pads. In a boat where you are concerned with seat clearance, that may make a difference.
I believe that the Cooke pads will outlive the Bell pads but I have used both in wood ribbed canoes. The Bell pad after five years wore right through…the foam compressed under the knees. I think in a smooth interior canoe you may be fine with it though as your knees wont be searching the same point on the pad, which is invariably between two ribs.
I lowered the seat 1" by inserting
the ends that I’d cut off of my Bell countoured web seat frame between the stock seat drops and the seat.
A local “Fasteners Etc.” store had some 5" flat head stainless 10-32 screws in stock and actually gave them to me free of charge with the request that I think of them when I need other items that they stock.
I used the new 5" screws for the front and moved the stock screws that were in the front to the rear. The new front screws are about 3/4" too long, so I put rubber caps over the ends. The extra length doesn’t get in the way of anything. The rear screws (formerly front screws) are just barly long enough to get the washer and nut on.
The result is dorky looking (because of my odd shaped inserts), but functional. I’ll probably order longer drops from Hemlock canoe for a permanent fix.
RESULTS:
- Feels much better for kneeling. Could probably be 1/4 lower and still leave enough room to get my size 9 Chota Quicklace mukluks in and out from under the seat without too much difficulty and it would make kneeling even more comfortable.
- Plenty stable for sitting and paddling. I’ll definately install some sort of foot brace and sit most of the time while paddling - probably one of the three Wenonah sliding foot braces that Chuck_IL picked up for me at Canoecopia.
I used the pipe insulation covered front thwart as a brace tonight and it greatly increase power and control while sitting, but it’s a little too close to the seat and too high for optimal functionality.
Sitting is much more comfortabe for me than kneeling and I can’t think of a good reason not to sit in this boat when I don’t need to be kneeling to take advantage of the added stability and control for windy and wavy conditions, tricky moving water situations or to just mess around with maneuvers.
- I may still install a contoured web seat from either Hemlock Canoe, Bell Canoe or Ed’s for increased comfort. The straight cane seats just aren’t as comfortable for me as the contoured web seats. I haven’t tried one of the Ed’s seats, but hear that they are very comfortable.
I can’t find on Ed’s site
a contoured web seat.
I have one on my Swift Dumoine.I know there is such an animal. I dont find it any more comfortable than a stock cane seat.
Ed’s does have contoured cane seats.
I love mine; its the Cane Bucket Canoe Seat
http://www.edscanoe.com/canoeseats.html
I am having trouble wrapping my mind over footbrace and Lady Bug…
Seems to me
that changing the seat and adding a permanent foot brace is going to seriously decrease the resale value of the Ladybug.
Show me a stock canoe that meets my need
for this application of paddling shallow & twisty rivers
- Weighs about 30 lbs
- Adjustable foot brace
- Comfortable for sitting or kneeling
- Good fit for 5’6" 160 lb paddler
- Handles well using a single blade bent shaft or straight shaft canoe paddle
- Costs $1500 or less, including shipping and sales tax
- Reasonably efficient
- Durable enough for bumps and grinds on shallow, twisty and sometimes rocky rivers and streams
I’m not aware of any. Are you?
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Regarding reducing resale value via modifications:
- Replacing the stock seat with a more comfortable one isn’t likely to reduce resale value. I would still have the stock seat and seat drops to reinstall if needed.
- Installing a foot brace may either increase or decrease the resale value depending on who is buying it, how they plan to use it and how well it is done.
The foot brace could be easily removed by drilling out the mounting rivets and plugging them a nut and bolt or a propper patch. A well laid patch would be very small and barely noticeable.
- The scratches that I expect to put on it will probably reduce the value more than installing a foot brace.
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Lastly, why is this so important to you?
If you have a better option for me, please let me know.
Does it make more sense to modify a stock boat to best meet my needs or to leave it stock and never be happy with the fit and comfort?
seriously do we look at our boats
as investments? I know that I threw that out but we buy boats to enjoy them…
If we get fifty bucks less when we need to swop out most of dont remember the price we paid. We remember the fun.
Most of the time the next buyer can undo whats been done. And in my experience what we perceive as a potential stumbling block often isnt.
I remember selling a house with seven foot ceilings to a six foot plus couple. That floored me.
Maybe the Cane Bucket Seat
http://www.edscanoe.com/cane-bucket-canoe-seat.html
The main drawback that I see to it is that the bump between the legs would be harder on the back of the neck when carrying the boat than the front of the frame on either a straight or regular contoured seat is.
Regarding a foot brace in a Lady Bug, any boat that I plan to paddle more than an hour has to be set up for comfortable sitting. Otherwise, it’s useless to me. I can’t kneel comfortably for very long.
Sorry Yanoer
Of course you’re right given your criteria. You did point out that the seller sold it to you at a price that you could resell it for in your neck of the woods. And Kayamedic did post earlier that adding a foot brace may limit your resale market. It’s actually not that important to me. I wish you well with your new boat.
Floored you?
What about that stretch of a couple after they’d took a crack (to the ceiling) at Doctor Ruth’s Chapter 27 of No Bad Sex For Today’s Consenting Adults? The chapter entitled, “Pogo Sticks and Passionate Partner Tricks.”
Next realtor had to ask that couple of sellers to not hang (their heads) around when he was showing the place to potential buyers, as with Quasi and Semi hunched in the background it kind of gave a belltower Modus operendi to the premises.
Ahh, but she now stoops to conquer.
At 6’0" of height (Damn pogo sticks! 7" ago I could have been a power forward! Least, that’s the rumor.) and 215 pounds I’ve found the vintage 1986 Lady Bug I purchased for my ten-year daughter to be a nimbly niddiling gnat of nervousness when this nerd noodles her about, even kneelin’. But, in the capable, or even learning hands of the lighter paddler (my daughter still prefers the double blade for her twisty-creek sojourns) it is a graceful water strider that darts betwixt rock-n-pool as Nicole picks her way down through the strainers and gravelly bars of the Gunpowder. Another beauty from that Yost-Curtis collective conscious of canoe artistry.
If Nicky desired firmer footing to augment her seating arrangements, I’d probably demur on piercing thosee glass vintage bilges (not sure why, having had Mr. McCrea assist me before in that endeavor with older glass and kevlar boats) for perhaps the glued installment of some cutom-carved (love that Dragon Skin) foam foot blocks. While these might not afford the fuller range of foot positions as say a Wenonah bar, I don’t believe they’d be too difficult to remove/replace. I’ve already repainted the inner glass matting with an oil-based epoxy paint which will no doubt require refreshening someday post its many uses.
Enjoy your boat. The thought of resale value seldom occurs to me, as, like all of the cars I’ve owned, the many blue highways and riparian byways yet to be traversed will likely throw the hook to any blue-value book. And that’s all the value I could ever ask for.
TW
Kneeling comfort improved by narrowing
stance. I brought my knees closer to each other, rather than wide apart and my right knee and ankle felt much better and I was able to paddle kneeling for much longer than with the knees wide. The knees only need to be wide when the extra control is needed.
I’m reconsidering installing the footbrace, since it would add a couple pounds to the boat and alter the balance point when carrying it.
Add rear thwart to Lady Bug?
I plan on using the Lady Bug on river day trips and I usually use the front and rear thwarts in my other solo canoes to secure my distributed load in the boat.
Since the Lady Bug doesn’t come with a rear thwart, should I add one or use some other method to secure the rear portion of my gear in the boat? It’s usually my dump bag and lunch bag in the rear. I don’t want anything floating out of the boat when I dump, and I will dump again at some point.
My inclination is to add a rear thwart.
Add Pad Eyes under the gunwales
if possible. Those little inchworm lookalike things.
With four(two on each side) you can crisscross parachute cord and then use a gate hook or two to secure your pack under your mini cage.
That gives you a little more flexibility than a thwart. A thwart may limit the size bag you load in the rear.
Yes. it does involve making holes in the gunwales. Ow.
Lady Bug is a good poking around boat.
I’ve had it out a few times on lakes with lots of nooks and crannies to poke around in and it works very well for this. My favorite canoe for this usage, now. I have added several scratches to the bottom by traversing in too shallow water and getting stuck on logs and mud / gravel bars.
I finally have a canoe that’s fun to use a beavertail paddle with.
I’ve been sitting 95% of the time - no need for me to kneel in this boat for this type of paddling.
It is a little tricky to control with strong side winds - especially when paddling on the lee side of the boat (boat gets blown into the paddle). Pretty easy to control when paddling on the wind side of the boat , but I like to swich sides now and then for balanced muscle usage.
I still haven’t had it on a river yet. That may happen soon.
I still haven’t installed the footbrace yet, but that will likely happen soon.
Different footbrace
A local builder here used to install footbraces a different way. Rather than riveting or glassing to the side of the hull, he attached them to the bottom.
Two boards ran parallel to the keel line, about 12" apart. These boards had several large holes drilled in them. that accepted the footbrace. The footbrace was a flattened bit of wood with tapered ends. One end had a hole for a pin.
My point in all this is as follows: You could make such a set-up and either glass it in or use something like vyna-bond. The vynabond would be easy to remove (not sure if it would work wood/glass), and the glass would not be easy, but could at least be cut/sanded/ground off if required.
Footbrace installed today.
This addition makes it a much more versatile boat, since I can now use leg drive when paddling seated, rather than kneeling. My knees can’t handle too much kneeling. I tried it out and it’s much appreciated.
I used a silver aluminum Wenonah sliding footbrace that I riveted in to the kevlar hull. I didn’t use any silicone RTV or other goop on the rivets to seal the edges of the holes that I drilled, but I don’t expect that to be an issue, since the rivets are about 6.5" above the bilge.
I mounted it so that the end of the rail closest to the paddler is a little forward of the nearest edge of the front thwart, so that it won’t interfere with most freestyle maneuvers. With the rails in this position, the brace bar is about 2" from the nearest end of the rail for me, so it wouldn’t accomodate a paddler with much shorter legs.
I’m pleased with the results.
Installed Ed’s Cane Bucket Canoe Seat.
http://www.edscanoe.com/cane-bucket-canoe-seat.html
Big improvement for sitting control and comfort compared with the original straight cane seat. Some improvement for kneeling vs the original straight cane seat, but my weight on the back of the legs seems more on the front edge of the frame, rather than on my butt on the cane. I may consider lowering the seat a little in order to get my weight more on my butt on the cane when kneeling, or I may try just lowering the front edge, but I’d need different hangers to lower just the front edge.
I felt much more secure in the seat when sitting and executing leaned turns when compared to the straight seat.
I did feel a little pressure from the bump in the middle of the seat when kneeling, but that wasn’t as much of a problem as the front edge of the seat in in the back of my legs.
I seem to prefer the handling of the Lady Bug better sitting than kneeling (I added a footbrace last week).
So far, I’m pleased with this seat.