day hatches

Won’t buy a boat without one!
I’ll never buy a boat without a day hatch. Mine carries a signal kit (except for VHF which is in a dry bag in my PFD pocket), repair kit, first aid kit, water, snack, paddling jacket, rescue sling, skeg clearing tool (a Flatpick design), camera, neoprene hood, and occasionally a helmet.



On the days that my wife is paddling with me, I get to carry her snack and jacket too!



Nothing goes on the front deck except a chart. The spare paddle on the back deck does not block the day hatch.



This way, I never have to open my skirt in rough conditions. The little bit of water that the day hatch can hold is not enough to cause any problems.

prioritize
stuff has to be secure,if it’s on the deck it has to be secure,surf will knock a lot of marginally secured spare paddles out,ditto hand pumps stuck under a couple bungies. So if a person has a couple dry bags in the compartments they shouldn’t be loose to slide a few feet scraping around or changing balance. A day hatch and bulkheaded compartment is an involved way to confine a partially filled compartment to prevent bags from shifting. Likewise anything in the cockpit,it should be secure and not able to dissapear in a wetexit. I’ve put down four looped pieces of webbing right in front of my glass kayak seat and laced a 1/8" bungie between the four loops and the front of the glass seat. I’ve stuffed a small drybox and two pints of water under that that didn’t dislodge in a maytagged capsize to the beach. Same with a two liter water bottle instead of the other combo. Likewise pump/paddlefloat and small stuff sack under the foredeck. Behind the seat is a similar webbing of 3/16 bungie.

backpacking
I think that’s what I’m getting at,folks are looking at the day hatch to help with prioritizing the placement of stuff and mixing quasi-essential paddling stuff with essential non-paddling stuff. The largest volume in the kayak is the cockpit. The most accesible volume from the cockpit is what’s in the cockpit. The amount of essential items you’ll need while paddling isn’t very big and the most necessary items in a ditch scenario aren’t going to be acquired through a rear hatch. If you’re not able to open your sprayskirt then how safe/convenient is it to open a hatch that is behind you for something “essential” where the risk of taking on a significant amount of water can occure. The part I don’t get is how far into that hatch can anyone get anything? It’s pretty much what you can reach right at the top. That’s one small dry bags worth of gear. A person isn’t going to be reaching behind them into the far reaches of that small compartment. If they are then it’s a friend,how accessible is that?

significant amount of water?
not really so much. the compartment is small and if there is stuff in it already not so much water can invade. I can grab my first aid kit, flares, rain gear, water or tea out of my day hatch with ease. I organize it the same way every time and have a method. It used to scare me to death to reach back there on flat water, now I can handle it in non-steep but moderate sized swells. More practice will yield more perfection.



And what about developing a one handed sculling brace?



My needs may be different from yours. I use the tea or water monthly, and have fished out the aid kit on the water3 times in two years. I like to surprise folks with available resources. I like to help and serve my fellow kayakers. When alone a knee tube would work fine for me. On a hard core multi person expedidition a few day hatches would be most helpful.



On deck storage? Hope that waves does not break!



I’m done with this thread now.

stuff
1.hand pump, it’s on a 2’length of bungie with a plastic clip wrapped around the pump then stuck under the foredeck. If someone needs a pump then I’m rafted up next to them and can pop my skirt to get it. I don’t need it unless I’m out of my kayak or I’m opening the sprayskirt,either way I don’t need it on the deck and it’s not getting knocked into during rescues.



2. Accessability of extra water : I meant to say on the floor right in front of the seat for drinking water,behind the seat (if there’s room) or behind the bulkhead for multiday water storage. The thing I noticed that was nice about unloading a kayak without a day hatch was that at shore I could move the heaviest stuff out of the aft hatch quickly to make moving the empty kayak easier. The trick is to have enough webbing tie downs for bungies or clips on the interior behind the seat or behind the aft bulkhead so things can’t shift. In the time that a friend was unloading the day hatch I emptied half the aft compartment with the heaviest things and could carry them up to a campsite.



3.

A place to keep and extra layer,

That’s what a small dry bag can be for,at shore,get out of the kayak and open the drybag for whatever is needed.



It really wasn’t a troll. I can see a lot of other things where the cost and labor of another bulkhead and hatch could be applied. For a cheaper kayak,fewer replacement hatches,more profit,etc. Shallow recesses in a molded deck for specific gear/hardware like the p&h decks (but without the square paddle recess), mini compartments in the foredeck for gps/vhf.

It’s just that the location of a hatch behind one,for acess to a space that really cannot be acessed from the cockpit very deeply doesn’t sound like a well engineered solution to “things that are easy to get to for the day while paddling”

Don’t get it
"It’s just that the location of a hatch behind one,for acess to a space that really cannot be acessed from the cockpit very deeply "



But what do you mean by that?

oh lord
and English is my only language,sorry about that. Basically if the idea of a day hatch is access to a compartment while sitting in the kayak you couldn’t ask for a more awkward access than behind you while your legs are pointing forward. Doubly so because you can’t reach into that compartment very deeply. If you have to be out of the kayak to reach deep into the compartment then someone else is doing it for you or you’re at shore. If you’re at shore then what is the advantage of a compartment with a small hole for a location where the heaviest items should be located? If while sitting in the kayak you can only get things awkwardly that can come out of the day hatch it’s not going to be much more than a small/slender dry bag that’s much easier to grab strapped in the cockpit.

thanks all
I was primarily curious if anyone knew when they first saw a “day hatch” and whether it coincided with those aft deck pumps. I put a little day hatch on my Express but never really used it. We got the flu around here so it’s something to think about while washing up after projectile burrito meals that didn’t agree with the flu bug.

Access
I can easily pop my skirt, but it’s a two-hand job to put it back on. I can open and close my day hatch with one hand. I’ve tried paddling with a flooded day-hatch compartment, and for me it’s easier than paddling with a flooded cockpit. I also don’t have a lot of room for stuff in my Avocet cockpit. I keep an inflated paddle float behind the seat for back support and flotation, I’ve filled in some of the other space to minimize cockpit volume, and I’ve extended the thighbraces.



To each his own…


that’s fine

– Last Updated: Feb-23-04 11:09 AM EST –

YOU can secure your gear inside the cockpit. It really doesn't matter. I personally wouldn't do this.

I would have to disagree that a day hatch is an "involved way" of getting gear secure. I would say it is elegant and simplistic.

It sounds like the mob is against you. I would have strong feelings about buying or even building a boat without a day hatch.

Good question, Leeg.
Kinda like the story of the 2pc turkey cooking. The daughter asks the mother why she always cuts the turkey in half before putting it in the oven. Mom says she never questioned it, that’s what her mom did, which is what her mom did. Ultimately, daughter, mom, and grandma go ask great grandma why they do this, and the answer is that greatgrandma’s oven just wasn’t big enough to put it all on the same tier. Successive generations just accepted the halving as the right way to do things.

You’ve got a good point. Maybe this will be a future selling point for upcoming models. eg: screw hatches built into sprayskirts or shallow day hatches built into the boat just in front of the combing, etc.



Jim

‘involved’??
as in open hatch, drop in goods, close hatch.



The loading sequence is the only thinh you have to wire, so the ‘goods’ are easily available in the field.



Otherwise it’s a no-brainer.



steve

Location
How far you can reach depends a lot on the hatch location, and a couple of inches can make a huge difference. The trick to reaching the bottom of mine is not to turn around. If you stay facing forward and put your arm behind you with your palm aft the arm joints line up pretty well for rummaging around in the compartment.



I agree that an under-foredeck compartment would be nice, and will try one if I ever build something or get a glass boat.

shoulder joints
it’s kind of funny about that. Years of cycling and not being a swimmer I’ve got a funny range of motion in my shoulder joint,I’m fine for paddling with a pretty flexible/strong torso and have been able to pry up an oval VCP hatch pretty far behind me (not that I’d seriously consider doing that,I’ve done it a couple times on flat water) but once I’ve tried to reach into day hatch compartment gripping something to not lose it overboard,or unscrew a deck mounted Beckson hatch (bad idea using screw-in hatches) I find my arm getting into a locked position that requires rotating the elbow nearly 90degrees to “unlock” it and get my arm in front of me. It’s just an awkward, awkward position to do anything.

specifically
Here’s what I mean by “involved” in order to have a small dry bags worth of stuff accessible. If I can really only get a small dry bags amount of stuff out of a day hatch while paddling,and I’m not paddling a low volume kayak I’ve got that available space in front of me. Here are the physical requirements for the manufacturer/designer.

No day hatch: A few glassed/glued in d-rings on the floor of the cockpit and under the foredeck and in the aft compartment to secure items with 10’ of bungie or webbing and fastek buckles.



Here are the requirments for the day hatch: Molded deck specifically for day hatch, day hatch, labor to install/seal second bulkhead.



If the primary purpose of bulkheads is to limit water into cockpit and increase flotation the extra bulkhead does nothing for that purpose. If the purpose of the day hatch is to make loose items confined so they don’t drift around the large aft compartment then a dry bag/box secured by webbing/bungie addresses that specifically. One might as well start filling up the entire kayak with sectioned compartments with seperate hatch access for each day of the week or like some quasi-sit-ons/rec kayaks have lift out luggage that conforms to each section of the hull like childrens blocks.

The thing I find curious is that safety/security isn’t increased by a day hatch, if you can’t pop your sprayskirt how is it safer opening a hatch where it’s hard to secure it quickly? It reduces the options of available storage space where the heaviest items need to be stored right behind the cockpit are only those items that can fit through the day hatch. Some folks might like 2liter water bottle for multiday storage,some folks might have two medium dry bags that only fit in that widest part of the compartments,etc. Confining the volume best suited to the heaviest items to what can fit through a day hatch works counter to ease of adjusting gear for balance and a variety of carried items.

People don’t see under deck rigging,they see a day hatch. My take is it’s like cup holders or heated car seats,more useful than tailfins on cars but not essential to the use of the craft.

It’s just a thought,I’m sure I’d enjoy the feature if my boat had one,I tried having one on my Express and found it wasn’t necessary given all the room around me.

I get it now
"Years of cycling and not being a swimmer I’ve got a funny range of motion in my shoulder joint



It’s just an awkward, awkward position to do anything."



You mean it’s an awkward position for YOU! Sorry, it’s not the English, it’s the concept that’s got me confused. I couldn’t fathom why anyone would find it hard to reach for stuff in the day hatch. :o)



I guess it boils down to personal preference. I had no trouble reaching behind and get stuff out of a day hatch. In fact, I found it faster to open and close the day hatch than to open and close the skirt. So the first time I paddled a boat that has one, I’m sold. It became a requirement for my search in boats.



Just like I prefer low volume boat. I mean really, really low volume, because I’m small. But someone 6’ tall probably couldn’t even begin to think about sitting in a Betsie Bay! And it’ll be tippy as hell! So I wouldn’t call a Seaward Navigator a ridiculous design just because it’s too big for a midget like me. Nor sould someone who has limited range of motion think day hatch isn’t for anyone else.



As for the bottom of the day hatch that’s too far to reach? Well, I could reach all the way to the bottom of the day hatch but I never need to. A standard day hatch’s size is way bigger than all the stuff I need during the day paddle. So it’s no sense trying to fill it with “day use” items. The lower part is for storage of, say, all the water for the trip. So the real useful items sit on top near the opening of the hatch, a location quite easy to access.


low volume boats
that’s where I could see they could make sense given the lack of available room in the cockpit,but in that case the aft deck is mighty close to the water,as opposed to the foredeck where the open coaming and foredeck is higher than the aft deck. It’s possible to pop the front of the sprayskirt while holding the rest on with the paddle, pull the item, replace the sprayskirt without it coming off the back. With the very low volume low aft deck boat you turn around, “pop”/pry the hatch,water slides across the very low volume aft deck,etc, etc.

None of this is worth a big argument, I’m enjoying the conversation, my gut feeling is that it’s an artifact of the aft mounted pumps and not an originally sought feature.

So be it
"my gut feeling is that it’s an artifact of the aft mounted pumps and not an originally sought feature"



Even if it WAS an artifact of the aft mounted pump that’s no longer fashionable, judging from the number of response that favors having the day hatch, it’s a feature that appeals to many. As an engineer, I know of great many inovations that came as a byproduct of something else. So even if the day hatch WAS an artifact, it doesn’t deminish the usefulness of it.



As for water over the rear deck, I don’t know. I’ve not tried to open the hatch when I’m in rough water. There’s still a big difference between things getting a little damp by the spray into a day hatch, or totally soaked in the cockpit when the peddler wet exits. So for me, many the stuff in the day hatch (lunch, windbreaker) are not in a dry bag at all(exception: the SLR camera). And so far, my lunch has stay dry, and my extra clothes too.

Sea Kayaker did a good article
on a sprayskirt hatch and knee tube set up.



I’ll stick with my day hatch, and hope I can afford to grab a susquehanna with a day hatch in expedition lay up. I’ll sell another boat to get that one! I might have to sell two and come up with an extra 500 though.



Peter K

Agree, under deck bags rock!

– Last Updated: Feb-23-04 6:41 PM EST –

I can half pop the skirt and get in and out of my under deck back a lot easier than twisting around and geting into a deep little coffee can opening behind me.

If it's too rough for me to reach in my under deck bag - it's definitely too rough for me to be reaching around back for stuff in a day hatch too.

Nothing on deck but a Storm GP. Anything I need easy access to is in the bag (or on PFD/in pockets - but I keep little there: minimal first aid kit, flat duct tape, knife, whistle). Less access need iot goes behind seat. Even less - hatches (but so far only day paddle - so hatches are usually empty).