Well just work on this. The trick (in real life application) is to slide from your regular grip (calmly while underwater) to the extended grip before rolling: (The video is showing a “set up” where the person has an extended grip already. That is not the case when you are out paddling.)
Thanks. That’s the one my husband did. I didn’t get the chance to try it, but presumably we can work on it together. Of course I’m sure it’s all much harder when one capsizes in real life, but for now doing it when perfectly set up is plenty hard enough!
I noticed in this video the guy has his arm extended pretty far away from his torso. I was under the impression that you should keep both elbows close in to the torso so as not to risk wrenching your shoulder. What do you think?
Mastering one roll, so that you can reliably perform it 95% of the time, is much more valuable than “knowing” 2 or 3 or 4 rolls that you can perform 20 or 30% of the time.
Best sequence:
There is a point where a roll is a roll is a roll. You have to get the boat started rotating then either continue to enable it or stay out of its way depending on the strength of the start. Head has to stay down whether you are coming off the back deck or the front deck, body memory is different in each is all.
Combat roll is whatever gets you up in slop. In WW they traditionally prefer coming in from a forward tuck position rather having your face exposed to rocks. But you will see more WW folks coming off a layback position now than you used to.
Don’t overthink it. Just keep repeating what you have until you start feeling your ability to control the boat all the way up and all the way down. The rest will come.
Definitely, with sculling, I find it’s better to keep the arms/elbows close to the body and it’s less straining to keep the paddle moving back and forth. The same can probably be said about the extended paddle roll. But, the utility of the extended GP roll is that the incredible lift makes it very forgiving of bad form. The first time going over unexpectedly (especially in conditions), most folks aren’t going to have perfect form.
sing
While this is true, to get there you have to master the “form” before you can break out of the form.
Reminds of the famous Bruce Lee quote:
“Don’t get set into one form, adapt it and build your own, and let it grow, be like water. Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water. Now you put water in a cup, it becomes the cup; You put water into a bottle it becomes the bottle; You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.”
So newbies read that and think, “Oh, I don’t need to learn the basic forms (moves), I can just do my own thing like BL.” What they don’t realize is that BL had spent years learning standard forms to then be able to break out of the confinement of those forms.
As I say to newbies in the gym, “focus on learning the basics. Once you get these down, everything seem to take care of itself.”
sing
Which is why l said above to nail down the body memory for what she has now.
Not to beat this to death, as we agree and disagree.
I don’t favor body memorizing the butterfly roll as the first as it does not have the “standard” basic grip as the starting place (although the body mechanics are the same). I personally would want to ingrain the standard grip first because that is likely what the person will have when s/he goes over unexpectedly, unlike what is happening with the grip and body positioning/setup of the butterfly roll.
DP hitting a roll for the first time this weekend is a great start and a confidence booster that a roll is possible (and FUN!). But, it’s far from ingrained. The ingraining process will take more sessions. This being the case, I personally think the standard grip to an extended paddle sweep is the starting place.
sing
Thanks for the opinions. One thing I’ve certainly learned in my few years kayaking is that people have different ideas on how to progress. I like hearing everyone’s ideas and then I can see what works best for me and keep the other options in mind.
The very best thing about having done the roll is that I got to see that indeed I can do it (!) and it’s really fun! So that’s great incentive to continue to learn.
I agree it’s important to practice that first roll until it is automatic. I think in white water it’s very important to have a roll that works on both sides. For seakayaks or surfing unless you are playing in rock gardens and kelp (I have a good story about rolling in kelp forest), it’s a bit less important. One thing I found useful is to have a “front” deck roll and a “back” deck roll so if you blow one you are pretty close to being set up for the other. Sings comments about learning the basic forms and then being like water is very true. Practice rolling where you need to roll in breaking waves and you discover that often there is a melting of a brace and a roll and it’s more of feeling how to bring the boat back to upright orientation without thinking in terms of a specific roll or form.
I’ve always thought that the Butterfly roll is a great place to start, because it’s almost effortless when you get the motion down. And other rolls can be built from the body rotation in the butterfly based on beginning body posture and where the paddle is, and translating those into means of righting the boat using the same or very similar final rotation. So, the various different rolls are basically ways of setting up for the finish. Enjoy! It becomes addictive.
I happen to share your concerns about only having that roll.
But l have beat back anxiety multiple times over the years, and l paid Marshall for an hour this last June to prove that my roll works just fine when someone is standing there.
So for the moment l land on it being more important for this paddler to have confidence that something can work for her. She can add the forward facing part knowing that she can move to the butterfly to recover. Similar to it being easier to get the second side roll once you can rely on switching to the other side.
The Butterfly / Angel roll is an excellent roll to perfect. It is a very good way to practice kayak control and paddle control. It is also the roll you need if the paddle gets torn from one hand but you still have it. It’s a roll that needs no set-up. Just punch the paddle to the surface and grab a little purchase …roll up. One hand on the paddle anywhere you have hold of it. AHHH…AIR can be done with a Greenland or an Euro and can be done slow motion in order to perfect.
It is one of the two rolls that most people get first. The other is the standard Greenland sweep with a rear deck finish and an extended paddle. Both are important.
Congratulations ! The rule of thumb , I’m sure they told you…need to 100 more to own it .
Again…Congrats!
Thank you! I did it four times, so I guess I have 96 more to go! In fact I wish I could get in the pool right now and start.
There is still time to practice without a pool if you have a tuilik and a mentor. {and a good quiet lake} Wear nose plugs to keep the cold out. Ear plugs if the tuilik hood doesn’t seal good. {inner ear is your balance, don’t freeze it in there} Don’t over due it…take it slow and don’t practice more than 30 min at a time. It is just swimming with a boat.
Hmmm. I have a spouse but no mentor; a river but no lake; and a cag but no tuilik or drysuit. I’m going to try to make it work!
Yeah man! Congrats!
Good advice folks are giving you. All I can add is don’t get discouraged if it takes a while for rolling to be easy and effortless. It can take some time. But it’s fun.
Thanks! I remember you saying, learn to roll, it’s fun, on some thread or other…. And indeed it is fun! I’m sure I’ll be having plenty of work going forward to get it down pat, but at least now I know it’s fun, and I have confidence that it’s possible for me! Too bad it’s not summer but what can you do.