Diesel. RPN, Mamba or other?

GT Series?
I hope you are referring to my original Posting?



If so, the GT series seems to be discontinued, correct?

True, but…
They’re still around if you’re willing to search a bit. Pricing should be good, also. Mamba is a good boat, as well as the Diesel. I just like the GT better for an all-around boat.

I am really happy with my diesel
would not trade for any other boat out there right now, i have the 75, i am a big at 6 ft and 235. try www.boatertalk.com they have some used ww kayaks on the board



you could also consider a eskimo salto - there is one for $600

develop a short list then choose an used
one from your list. that way your not out of too much money if whitewater is too much for you…in my previous post there are alot of used boats on boatertalk that would fit your need. most of the time with a used boat you can use it for awhile and sale it at the same price you paid or if you got a really deal you can make a little money…

DragoRossi Mafia
After looking at their site, and e-mailing them - they suggested the Gangster. I looked at it and reviews, and the performance model $999 outfittednew (if we go new ???) is better than their Elite series at $1500!

Lil Joe, et. al

– Last Updated: Apr-24-07 3:44 PM EST –

YES, a lot of reviews I've read since narrowing down my choice thanks to these message boards, really like the Lil Joe (Trigger, Hoss) series. And say it's outfitted well.

Mamba vs. Diesel
After narrowing down my choices, thanks to these message boards and this thread, I look at some reviews. And the one review (yes only one person’s opinion) I saw for the Mamba was compared to a friend’s Diesel. Both preferred the Diesel. Reason: In their opinion, Mamba too fast as compared to slower Diesel. May be more my speed, slow learner in reading river and reacting, I think.



Now to find time and place to try out the narrowed down list.

InaZone?
I was a little confused by their website, so I e-mailed them. They reccomended either the older H:3 or the newer Burn Connect 30 for our needs.

So I may look for a used H:3 as one of my choices. Thanks.

Good Advice
And advise we will use. I found a Yellow Mamba 8.1 for $300 nearby on Craig’sList. never used in WW. Only tried in pond acroos street from owner’s house. He probably purchased it used for $300!

My advice
The Gangster is a “dumbed down” version of the Mafia. That may or may not be the best choice for you. The Mafia is kind of an exception among creek boats in that it is in face easy to turn, is easy to catch eddies and peel out, boofs easily, goes through holes easily, will surf on waves, and in general is not like many of the clunky creek boats. My guess is that at first the Gangster would seem like what you want. But as your skills increase you will be bored with it and want the possibilities of the Mafia. I grant you that it is a lot of money to spend. But it is possible to try out paddling both. There are demo people all across the country who can make arrangements if you want. I can tell you who to contact if you are interested. In any event, at this stage you are probably fine with any of the suggestions you have been given.

Mamba vs Diesel
You mentioned outfitting. Which is outfitted better? Or are they just different?

I have a couple of boats
From your ongoing comments, I would recommend looking at the Jackson Fun series.



More playful looking, but sized right, excellent river running boats. For aggressive learners, it will accelerate your learning curve.



BTW, I have a Diesel too, and on creeky days and on days I’m feeling sluggish, I’ll jump in the Diesel first.



JMHO

Maybe we need a shared definition of
"play." Just ran the Nantahala with a mixed group of Diesels, a Burn, an RPM, etc., and of course there were many other kayaks on the river. I was loafing in my 15’ banana boat.



Of course only a few really short playboats were “playing” in the sense of throwing ends at Whirlpool, etc. I could only front surf at Whirlpool, but I had an easier time of staying on the wave than any of the kayaks.



On the rest of the river, all sorts of kayaks were front surfing, skating back and forth across waves, trying for enders (better achieved by an old school Animas), etc. No kayaks were shut out of some form of playing.



When Celia says that a Jackson Hero would not work for playing (though it is a wonderful short cruiser), I have to ask, what sort of playing? I wish I could borrow Eric Jackson himself, because he can play in anything from his Mega Rocker to his planing slalom boat. And the Jackson Hero is a fairly fast, sharp handling semi-planer which will plane and even spin on a fast wave.



What one should want is sharp handling and reasonable speed. Playing comes from understanding water behavior and learning to take advantage of it with the boat you have.

Your food for thought
I’ve been doing a lot of thinking about this, of late. And re-thinking. $200 or $300 for a second boat, vs. a new or recently used second boat (in addition to our Touring boat), at two and three times that amount - now seems more practical.



An older boat to learn in and have for a little while. Esp. since we do NOT plan to do anything more than Class II’s - none are in our area. And time-wise - we’ll be doing flat/quiet water with our primary boat, as well.



The Dagger Approach is a new boat - but considerable. Someone mentioned the Dagger RPM. (available for around $200)



Other ideas, suggestions?



(Besides Demo, Demo, Demo.)

Food for Thought
I’ve been doing a lot of thinking about this, of late. And re-thinking. $200 or $300 for a second boat, vs. a new or recently used second boat (in addition to our Touring boat), at two and three times that amount - now seems more practical.



An older boat to learn in and have for a little while. Esp. since we do NOT plan to do anything more than Class II’s - none are in our area. And time-wise - we’ll be doing flat/quiet water with our primary boat, as well.



The Dagger Approach is a new boat - but considerable. Someone mentioned the Dagger RPM. (available for around $200)



Other ideas, suggestions?



(Besides Demo, Demo, Demo.)

Yellow Mamba
If you found the Mamba 8.1 in any reasonable condition for $300, you should snap it up NOW! You are looking for a boat to learn in, this is it.

And YELLOW, what a sweet color. Just do it!!!

boats
I’ll jump in with a little more input. I agree on most of what has been said, but I think you will be better off in the long run with more of a river-running playboat than a river-running creeker. Boats such as the Wavesport EZ or EZG or the Jackson Fun Series will give you more room to grow as a paddler than the creeklike boats such as the diesel or mamba. they will be a bit harder to handle in the beginning, but you should be able to get past the learning curve fairly quickly, and allow you to start learing spins and cartwheels if you so desire. the diesel and mamba will pretty much limit you to front surfing or just bombing through a rapid.



playboat = sports car

river-running playboat = sedan

river-running creeker = minivan

creeker = Truck