Does size really matter?

Wouldn’t catch The Fonz in a short boat.

Actually…
you wouldn’t catch the Fonz on a “tour boat.” Too boring for his image. He’d be on a waveski or a surf board.



sing

Not true
Plenty of rec boats will turn circles around your Avocet. Having said that, the Avocet is a great compromise of maneuverability, tracking, enough speed etc.

An Example…

– Last Updated: Jul-05-05 3:55 PM EST –

Because of its hull shape, my wife's 12' Pungo is actually straight line faster at top end, and easier to paddle at lower speeds, than my 13'4" Ocean Kayak Mars. Both boats are 28" wide.

But I wouldn't want to do a surf launch in a Pungo!

I have boats from 9' to 18'4"

A boat will not necessarily be faster just because it is longer, and unless you are racing on flatwater, top speed is not the only thing you need to consider.

It depends on the individual. I value handling much more than speed.

Not around my Avocet!
Is this a challenge?

kayak length and crusing speed
At a cruising speed of 3 knots, kayak width and hull design have more effect on efficiency than length. A revealing comparison of resistance / efficiency can be found at http://www.kayakshops.com/kayak_speed.htm



For example a 610 cm Looksha II has essentially the same efficiency at 3 knots as a 458 cm Merlin XT. Crank both boats up to 5 knots and you begin to see a big difference.

partly true
I did say some, not all…



But I’ve done it head-to-head with some disbelivers – paddle straight at a normal speed, and at a signal see who can turn 180 degrees first. With an aggressive edge(coaming under) on an inside low brace/rudder I can often get around well before the rec boat doing flat sweep strokes.



If I really want to spin in circles I get out the whitewater boat.

Some rec boats
turn very quickly when way on edge, yes quicker than your Avocet. That has not to do with you, rather the physics that we are all limited to on this planet. Put a santa cruz way on edge… The very fact that these boats are so darn wide relative to their length means that you can really use that buoyancy to free the ends. NOT saying they are fun to paddle, just pointing something out. Avocet is a great performer which I have owned. Other boats are more fun and maneuverable. Pintail is a great playful boat.

Actually 2…
the Fonz would be in a white water play boat doing enders without a helmet or skirt and wearing a leather jacket and never have a hair out of place.

Yeah, Right On…
A stern stall down the rapids would be more “wheelie” like. :slight_smile: All the boy playboaters would think, “I want to be just like him…” while the girl playboaters would swoon. Happy Days are here again.



sing

Interesting to note
that the fastest ranked boat in the 4 - 5 knot ranking (combining the rankings from 4, 4.5 and 5 knots) was a long boat of 583 cm (18.9 ft) all boats with a rating of 1 thru 25 in this category were over 17 ft and all but one had beams of 22" or less. Also interesting is that the longest boats (doubles) with the widest beams were the bottom ranked boats in this category.

Agree
The problem for me is getting them on edge – I’m not heavy, and with the beam, the loose cockpit fit, and the unpredictable secondary I haven’t had much luck in the few rec boats I’ve tried. paddler skill and experience obviously makes a huge difference.



The original post seemed to be asking about the blanket statement that “short boats are easier to turn than long boats”. I was just giving one example that it isn’t always true.

Gotta Remember…
That those wide doubles will have twice the horsepower moving them and will be much faster than you think.

Does size matter?
Under different conditions you will get different outcomes. I paddle a 17’ training boat on the Detroit River. When conditions are calm I have a hard time staying with an Aleut 2. When the waves are up , I walk away from the same Aleut with the same paddlers.

The key phrase in the article

– Last Updated: Jul-07-05 11:55 AM EST –

is "typical touring speeds." Since there are two different types of friction (one due to surface area and one due to length), there is a crossover effect where below a certain speed a shorter boat may actually be more efficient than a longer one.

For example, my 17 foot Mariner is easier to paddle at 4.3 knots than my 19 foot Spitzbergen.

However, I can't hold the Mariner at 5 knots for more than 10 or 15 minutes, whereas I've done the Blackburn loop (20 miles) around Cape Ann in the Spitzbergen at 5.2 knots.

So, your choice of boat, as others have said, depends on who you are and what you want to do.

As an aside, [Olympic boat designer] Ted van Dusen assures me that an Olympic K1 (17 feet) is potentially faster then an ocean surfski (21 feet). Both are 17 inches wide. He says the K1 designed for use over its hull speed (unlike, say, my Mariner). But only a few talented and very hard-working paddlers have the strength required to push a boat over its hull speed. By comparison to the speeds I mentioned above, Olympic K1 sprint records are in the 10-11 knot range. As a decent amateur kayaker, the fastest I've moved any kayak is 8 knots.

Don't neglect how good it feels to go 5 knots instead of 4, how much farther you can go in a day, how you can outrun bad weather or fight adverse currents better, etc.

As someone else mentioned, a long touring boat can be turned on a dime. Put all your weight on the paddle and lean the boat so it's perpendicular to the water, and you can turn all but the very longest boats in a single stroke. I've rarely felt limited mobility in a longer boat--I imagine I might feel that if paddling in a rock garden or ocean cave, but for the open coast, flat rivers, lakes, etc., I see no hindrance to using the longest boat you can make move a decent clip.

Sanjay