The park is either opened for free use to public or it’s not. What if he were launching and not returning to the park upon take out? How would their non-compliance rules/worries of liability issue be defined then?
Codes/regulations are subject to challenge. And have been in court, on this very issue. They could have a local code that one must “levitate from his car to the beach”–But if he decided to drop from a helicopter into the water instead, he’d have no officious ridiculous parks official in his face to impose any fines. If the town had justified overall concerns about it’s property/liability use, they could deem use of the park to launch require a permit.
“Wading” is a matter of semantics, indefinable and subject to debate.Once again, his intent upon entering the water was to launch, not hang around to wade.
No, a park is not “opened for free use to public or it’s not.” Many parks are heavily regulated as to what is permissible, as the subject park is, as the cited regulations show. It has nothing to do with whether he returns or not and nothing to do with dropping in out of the sky. The state law is clear, once you are floating in the water the town loses jurisdiction. It’s getting to the water that matters. If there is case law refuting the facts subject incident’s actions of the park safety officer, the OP would probably like to see it.
To wade: walk with effort through water or another liquid or viscous substance.
Just about every single dictionary definition. One’s intent is entirely irrelevant. The only way around that is if wade was a defined term meaning something different. It could be in the town code but I didn’t see it. Therefore you refer to the common dictionary definition. Some codes specify which code.
A while back, I went by Meadow Lake in Flushing Meadows Corona Park in Queens with a boat on the car. I was just checking it out, but a car with 2 park cops made a point of coming over to me in the empty lot to tell me that kayaking wasn’t allowed. Meanwhile, there’s a sailboat rental concession there.
I asked why sailboats but no kayaks, they said it was for my safety. I actually laughed at that, so they called somebody in the parks office and put me on the phone. That person reiterated the safety BS and suggested I kayak in nearby Flushing Bay, which has a ferry terminal, speedboats, jet skis, etc. We debated about the relative safety of kayaking with sailboats vs idiots on jet skis for a while (which made the park cops laugh), but I gave up at that point. I figured if I want to give it a try, I’ll go back and just do it, but haven’t bothered.
And if he walked from off the beach, stepped on the aft hatch of his kayak to get in his cockpit without shipping a drop–Does Webster’s Dictionary considered that “wading” as well?
Obviously you have more time to waste on this topic than I do… So I’ll leave any last word/research-homework on behalf of the OP to you.
To clarify. Public park open from sunrise to sunset. No fee to enter on foot. Years ago I used to carry the boat in. The only signage is “No Swimming, No Lifeguard On Duty” and “boat ramp end here.” No permit required to launch boat on boat ramp. No permit or fee required to enter park other than parking fee during peak season. No other signage regarding restricted activities.
To equate launching to swimming requires a tortured understanding of what is involved with kayaking and paddling in general. SUP paddlers also use the park. For example, launching a motor boat from a trailer might involve stepping into the water. Is that “swimming?”
Manhasset Bay is a navigable waterway. Park safety officer is just that, a person who walks around to make sure you’re not building a bonfire, or letting your dog poop all over the beach. He’d need to call the county PD to issue a summons. I’m sure the PD could care less.
I’m going to poke around and see if I can find an actual parks dept leader to speak with. The town is notoriously opaque when it comes to identifying who is in charge and how to contact them.
Hey, it’s been known to happen — it was nice to see that the park cops seemed to want me to tweak their boss about the knucklehead rules they have to enforce. In this case, I don’t think it was any liability issue, the park was protecting the sailboat rental business’ monopoly on the lake, which annoys me slightly. Not kayaking there has not been a burden, obviously…
Its obvious from reading the above that attitudes for and against using ramps and beaches varies by location and the paddler. The solution is public disobedience, armed insurrection, or discuss the options with local administrators - good opportunity for clubs to have some influence. I was admonished for launching from the beach at a parking turn off along the Colonial Parkway where it comes close to the James River. People picnic, wade, fish while standing in the surf and swim, but no hand launching boats. No reason why, it just is. Can’t be erosion, kids digging in the sand causes more erosion.
Its an opportunity for clubs to lobby administrators and set inclusive standards. Rather than make ramp use an either/or, set rules at the entrance.
Rules for Launch Use:
The Launch Ramps are open for all boat access. Including both trailered and hand launched watercraft.
All boat preparation must be done in the marked preparation area designated for either Trailer Prep or the separate area for Hand Launch Prep.
As ramp areas are often in high demand, the ramp must be cleared once the boat is foating, by guiding the boat to a staging area, if available. Please be considerate, and clear the ramp for other users while parking vehicles or loading boat occupants. Be careful while maneuvering to launch all watercraft - you are responsible for injuries or damage due to inattention or negligence.
An alternate launch site is available and recommended for hand launch boats, if the boater feels it is safer or more convenient. As with ramp access, staging and launching should be performed efficiently with other users in mind, to make the area accessable and convenient for everone.
NOTE: Failure to follow rules can result in denial of access. Be courteous and help others enjoy the waterways.
Probably to simple. That’s why we have wars. “Cant we all get along!!!” Sometimes war is the only answer!
Just an afterthought. The human condition tends to promote strife. Some boaters want to use trailer ramps, some want low piers, others want sandy beaches. Still others want roller launches, while many say they damage certain boats. Ramps with rubber panels are great to launch from but slippery when trying to get out of the boat upon returning. Concrete ramps are far too abrasive to drag any boat across - the ramps are designed to give traction to car wheels. Whether hand or trailer launching a boat, everyone should do whatever possible to get out of the way of others. Too often the attitude is I’ll be done when I’m done.
Ramps cost money to build and are designed to meet requirements of boats commonly using the waterway. We came across a guy with a large power boat using a ramp designed for outboard powered skiffs. The tide was out and the ramp was too shallow to float his boat off the trailer. His truck got stuck, but the boat had another foot before it would float. Life is a dilemma.
Most natural resources areas here cater to power boats and spend the tax funds making more ramps for everyone to use. They wouldn’t need as many ramps if they offered segregated trailer and hand launch areas. It would only cost a fraction of the amount needed for a ramp to scoop an earthen incline and dump some fine pea gravel or coarse sand to accommodate canoes, kayaks and paddle boards.
Communities implement BS green standards. There’s few options that are as environmentally friendly as a hand paddled boat. Yet in many areas, there is no effort to encourage it. We have to compete with large vehicles backing up large boats, as we block access and worry about being crushed. Most counties charge access fees, when all I want to do is walk across the grass and put my boat in at the shore. Promoting hand paddled boats is the best way to reduce pollution, expose people to the balance in nature, while limiting environmental impact. There’s nothing as impactful as putting the person close to the object being protected - where you see it, touch it, smell it, or worry about tasting it. Observe the difference between water turbidity on a weekend compared to the weekday when fewer boats are around.
The best advertising campaign is to give people more intimate access to the water ways you want to protect. You should figure it out if you padfle the same water and see the difference by paddling 50 feet into a four mile expanse of sea grass that power boats avoid. Its clear down to the bottom. If you see it, you might think twice about churning up the the shallow 6 ft channels and take your wave boat out into deeper water. The same could apply to the sea scooters, where the drivers seek shallow coves to spin around doing donuts to make waves to jump their wake, rather than go out in open waters. Maybe it’ll pay more dividends to acquiant people, rather than limit and fine everybody. Include environmental impact in licenvi g and boater safety courses.
No wonder there’s war. We can’t figure out how to launch a boat. Sorry in advance for being so skeptical about the future of society.
Not politics. Just need to go for personal responsibility. I just paddle a little 14 ft boat. I try to honor the personal space of other boaters and anyone fishing. Its just the right thing to do. I don’t fish or eat crabs, but I go out with my brother when he has nobody to go with him to catch Rock.
When I go with a group, I expect them to keep a safe interval so nobody cuts anyone else off and boaters don’t have to go put of their way to pass us. Stay out of the way of boats fishing or crabbing. Cross channels together so you don’t impead boat traffic. I cant grt everyone in a grpip to comply. So I won’t loan them a boat or go out with them. I like solo
I don’t mind wake, but it would be nice if power boats could consider the impact on the silt accumulated on the bottom. The sea creatures have to filter water out of that muck the boats stir up. The sediment cuts off sunlight to the vegetation, land meeting water is eroded by wave action. If you plan on doing it, so be it, I won’t impose my standards. Just think of the consequences of your action. Like dumping your trash in a pristine environment, you brought it out in a container. Use that to take it back home. Not that hard to do. You look out for me, and I look out for you.
What’s the point of a full loads of drunken party boaters screaming like banshees because that’s how they behave. Do it out in the middle, unless your goal is to irritate and signify your wild breeding to the world. If anyone reading feels insulted, too bad. Grow up. Failing to care for each other is when the politicals step in and over react.
@spiritboat, I agree, but paddling is hard thirsty work. If you think paddling is for everyone, I believe you’re under estimate your ability. You might make it look eady, but not everybody can.
I didn’t coin that phrase. Hence, the quotation marks. It was recently posted on a boat in the Everglades Challenge. Also I neither believe paddling is easy, or for everyone any more than biking/running marathons. I’ve also had the guilty pleasures of using motored boats and sailing. With the majority of these aquatic activities in New York State the year round.
(Where every photo above was taken, btw.)
I DO believe everyone should have good easy, shared public access to the water(as long as they behave respectfully toward others while out)and not be burdened by overly officious regulations/people espousing them, that go far beyond ensuring personal safety.
These guys in uniforms are just petty tyrants. I think they are ruining your day out and you should tell him so. We all go there to get away from jerks like him and relax. Going out pissed off makes for a less than good day on the water. By all means go up the rank’s until you get an apology.
