Alas…
– Last Updated: Jul-20-07 4:59 PM EST –
Zenrider, obviously ye ain't a canooist...
FE
we don’t need any engineering students
– Last Updated: Jul-20-07 2:26 PM EST –
Poor technique is inefficient.
what, zen?
– Last Updated: Jul-20-07 2:23 PM EST –
the long-term efficiency IS with a single. it's been proven over and over again in ultra-marathons. double for speed, single for the long haul. and there are plenty of paddlers using a single blade who are fast. in fact, i'll race you in my 15-foot solo with a solo blade and you in your canoe with a double. 10 miles. down the river and back. you won't win.
single blades just require more time to learn. it's more complicated to pick up a single blade and hit the water than with a kayak paddle. but just because you can't use/understand one doesn't mean you should be mystified as to why they're still around.
Has the time come for a Forum devoted
to double-blade canoe paddling?
Just a thought.
just as long as it’s not archived
Otherwise, how could you ask “how long” and “who makes” over and over again? ";p)
To boldly go…
That’s a confident man who can wear those.
Or A Clueless Man
Yeah, I’m wanted by the fashion police.
What about it?!
T
A modest proposal
This is like the Jonathan Swift story about the folks who went to war because some ate their eggs from the narrow end and some ate their eggs from the wide end.
Oh Pleeeease!
Yeah the masses, including me, can thrash and bash with ease using a double blade.
But really good double blade technique doesn’t come much easier than really good single blade technique.
It takes some blood sweat and tears to become moderately skilled with a single. That’s about were I am. A solid intermediate with modest skills. I’ve paid some dues to get there and have some pride in them.
I have friends who are the same with their doubles. They aren’t stars any more than I am. But they’re working on their skills and taking pride in what they acomplish.
Watching seriously good double blade paddlers, I don’t see any less skill, or blood sweat and tears, than I do watching seriously good single bladers.
So how about we give up the single vs. double controversy. In the right hands either can be pretty inspiring. In my hands they are tools that I will use to my best advantage.
No apologies.
Absolutely shameless.
Tommy
doubles don’t have the choices
– Last Updated: Jul-23-07 4:27 PM EST –
I think if double bladed canoe paddles had the same blade choices as singles, you would find a LOT more performance there. I have not seen too many offerings in doubles for canoes. They are pretty generic. A bent shaft fatty canoe paddle just has more surface area and a more efficient cant to the blade. Now, if you could put a pair of those super nice blades at each end of a super nice shaft, I don't see single blades advantage.
Every J-stroke wastes energy. Every free swinging blade in the air wastes energy. But energy wasted swinging through air is less than energy wasted swinging through water. That energy would be related to the surface area and angle of attack and most importantly, the density of the medium through which the wasted stroke is traveling. So, while races may be won or endurance contests by singles, this only reflects the conditioning of the athlete and the condition of their equipment. Now, if we could hook these paddles up to some measuring machine to see how much energy is expended and how much is transfered vs how much is wasted, that is what I am talking about. Races are not always won by the most powerful car/contestant nor by the most efficient. A race is not a scientific study of efficiency of use of available energy.
My point was, I would like to see hard data with numbers showing which style of paddling would burn the least calories per day if, all else being equal, we use single or double blades. My hypothesis is: Double blades use less human energy to cover a given distance. Note, that is my hypothesis, not necessarily my belief. My belief would come after we analyse the data.
And no matter who's boat/paddle I use, Chad will beat me in 10 mile race everyday.
And RUDDERS?? for canoes?? A rudder is a friction generator. Detracts from every stroke. You may go straighter and maybe faster. But unless they changed physics, you are definitely waisting/using more energy to do it.
But I use both and despite the ill informed comment above, am quite proficient with both.
We need more double bladed paddle choices though. It would be great to have doubles in the selection choices that single blades offer. Performance canoe paddles have much more surface area than any kayak paddles. So, just using a long kayak paddle is no substitute for a properly designed double for canoes as I am envisioning.
Now
if everyone got rid of those skinny, lightweight, high end boats and paddle a pig boat like my OT Hogged Backed Disco than there would be no need for a discussion on the use of a double blade! I guess I haven’t gotten a new boat cause Tom’s attire has blinded me for all these years! 
Double blades come in a huge variety
of blade sizes and shapes and loading. Just as much variety as single blades.
With the rudder down on my Sawyer Summersong and swinging a 10oz Zaveral carbon paddle, I’m using less energy than if I were swinging a 20oz or heavier double blade. With or without the rudder down in the same boat, I can paddle farther and be less tired than when I use a double blade in the same canoe and in the same conditions.
But, as you suggest, I may just not have used the right double blade in the canoe to have the same nice easy paddling as I have with the ZRE Medium single blade. The right paddle/boat combinatiion makes a difference.
Also, as you suggest, I may be better conditioned for using the single blade than for using the double blade in the canoe. They do effect my muscles differently.
that’s what I am thinking
Even if we could do the study I mention, it is as you say, “results may vary”. Even if a double were more efficient using a machine measurement, we might be employing two extra muscles we were not using single blading and therefore burn up more calories or visa versa.
It is my impression only that I am using less energy using a double blade. I feel comfortable stating I used less energy during a days paddle. That may be more related to the blade shapes and paddle lengths of my available choices.
But I have not found a great variety of choices in double blades for canoes. Even the longest kayak paddles are just about at the short end for my needs in super fat hauler canoes I use. I found some wooden generic style, a couple aluminum shaft river beaters. Pretty much beaver tail or oar tipped blade shapes. I don’t remember finding anything with a scoop or feather like you see in yak paddles. I only have the world wide web to search and have not really seen as much variety in these offerings. I suspect that would be because the market just is not there. And I suspect that is because most other folks prefer singles for canoes. And regardless of the pleasures obviously experienced by the majority, my brain and body thinks it likes doubles. But I like to take them all with me, wouldn’t be fair to leave one home. That would be like leaving one of your kids behind on vacation.
me too
Not only that but my solo reentry is so nice in case of capsize on a really big lake with a double blade when I am on a solo trip. I am not likely to find other people at all on my trips.
I take a two piece blade for portaging, a 14 foot sling and a paddle float. It doubles as a camping pillow.
For me the solo canoe is the way to go and the double blade a safety item as well as a way to defeat the wind… I have no shame and am unlikely to find any of you up near the Albany River where I go. Thats not in the US
I dont find I have the fine control with the double blade either that I do with the single blade(and yes I carry a single too!)
There are so many ways to power a canoe…do we really have to bring the police in?
Double stick for Osprey
Tommy;
I guess you’re kneeling against a high mounted canoe seat.
Try Adventure Technology’s Exception OS with the new cam ferrule. Probably 230, but 240 might be required - then again the cam ferrule allows length extension as well as feather adjustment.
It is very stiff, very dry and quite light.
Double kayak vs Canoe
You won’t find too many double blades in canoe lengths. There is not a big enough market. But most manufacturers will be happy to make longer versions of their paddles.
You just have to ask.