Wet or dry?
There’s been an awful lot of talk in response to this question. I don’t think it’s a question of one or the other. You will need a full range of options depending on the conditions you’re in. In cold water (50 degrees or so) you’d better be close to shore and able to stand the cold at least briefly. If you paddle in colder water or have any chance of spending a significant amount of time in cold water then the dry suit is absolutely necessary. On the other hand, you’d die paddling in a dry suit on a mild day. From what I hear you say, it sounds to me like you would benefit from a good wet suit and staying close to shore. If you start kayaking in severe conditions or in colder water, add the dry suit.
Please define "mild"
I’ve used a dry suit comfortably in weather as warm as the mid 70’s. As long as the water is cool, you can “rotocool” (roll), scull or dunk yourself using a friend’s bow, if you need to cool off.
Keep in mind that if the water is cool, the air temp on the water will be lower than the air temp on land.
A non-yakker has a question:
I recently did the Bowron. Just about the whole time I was on the circuit it rained and was cold. I have good rain gear but over a period time in the canoe got damp and started to get cold. Was wondering would a wet suit be good in this situation? I’d put it on and wear it under my rain gear when it’s cold and rainy and plan to be out all day. It would also help if I had an upset. Is it hard to get on? I know the gloves are. Thanks.
No !
The whole purpose and working of a wetsuit is to provide some insulation when it gets wet, being immersed. The whole idea is the body warming up the layer of water between it and the neoprene. So yes, if you are canoeing and concerned with immersion, a wetsuit or drysuit is smart. But if you are trying to stay warm without immersion consideration while sitting in a canoe,there are infinite selections of fleece and synthetic insulation that are far more comfortable and practical than neoprene.
start with the wetsuit
Inukshuk,
One of the smartest things I read here is that if you avoid getting an $$ drysuit now, and find that you really do need one, that you will accummulate a closet full gear in wetsuits, dry tops, dry pants, etc. and spend lots of money that way too.
That’s what I did. But I don’t regret it.
I paddle ice-cold whitewater rivers. I paddle conservatively in calss II-III water and don’t swim much. And I prefer a wetsuit when it’s hot out in the summer - the gaskets etc. are, to me, uncomfortable and overkill most of the time. Just bring a some warm clothes as back-up, and paddle with competent people.
However, because I want to 1) push myself and swim more (play harder) and 2) extend my season into the Vancouver winter, I will buy a drysuit.
Whitewater paddling can be very active, and I know I’ll sweat in a non-breathable suit, but I still don’t have $1200. Maybe one day.
In the meantime, start with the 3mm wetsuit and add dry gear if you find yourelf paddling farther from shore in rougher waters in the winter. If you’re not sweaty and don’t paddle too hard, a non-breathable drysuit may be the next step. If you strike it rich later, go deluxe.
If the $1,000 will kill you, you can very likely get out there in a wetsuit. Just make your decisions accordingly. As it’s been pointed out, it’s all about risk management.
Take care, Pat.
p.s. on eBay there is a drysuit for sale in PQ, also one on the MEC gear swap. Of course, buyer beware when spending $200 on something used that needs to be waterproof. Buying a suit used is probably a whole new thread! (But I’d do it)
Wetsuit, Drysuit, Canoe
?suit -I have been relying on a 3mm NRS Farmer Jane wetsuit for the last few years because it was easily accessible price-wise. I found that, when paired with a good dry or semi-dry top, it keeps me pretty warm down to 60 degree C water and 60 degrees C of air temps with some wind. (Note that a good drytop can run you a decent amount of money, so add that to the cost of the wetsuit to get an accurate estimate.)
But yeah- if you paddle long enough you’ll find your way to a drysuit because you’ll be tired of being wet all the time. (which is the point I am at - am getting a drysuit)
As to wetsuit in a canoe - I’d not trust it once wet. I found the wetsuit to be inadequate when I was standing by a pond after some trying-to-roll practice in 65 degree temps with some breeze. I had been fine in the water, but I started shivering and had to change into dry clothes very quickly to stop a run towards hypothermia. Since then I add a drytop for those sessions.
A Gore Tex or other breathable material is nicer, but frankly a deal is a deal. If a really good sale price can be found on a drysuit that is less fancy,it well may be worth the stop.
Celia
Common wetsuit misconception
"The whole idea is the body warming up the layer of water between it and the neoprene."
This is a commonly held and (unfortunately) often repeated myth. It’s the tiny trapped gas bubbles in the neoprene that provide the insulation. Wetsuits are most effective when they fit closely enough that they DON’T allow water intrusion. A wetsuit provides insulation DESPITE being wet, not BECAUSE it’s wet.
$1200???
Where are you shopping for dry suits? Is that in Canadian dollars?
Breathable dry suits generally range in price from ~$500 - ~$800, with only the most heavily optioned models exceeding that. They can often be found much cheaper during the off-season and at places like Sierra Trading Post.
“C” or “F” ?
60 degrees C = 140 degrees F. That’s some seriously hot water you have there! 
What “cause”?
>Outrageous exaggeration like this isn’t going to further your cause. <
I don’t have a “cause”. It’s you who’s trying to further your “cause” of “only the best will do”.
I just pointed out how inflexible and maybe even impratical your “cause” is by example of SUV vs. sedens in day-to-day driving.
OK, $CDN 1,100
If I were going to spend big bucks on a breathable drysuit, you might as well go for the relief zipper!
At a major Canadian outdoor co-op these top-of-the-line Kokatat suits retail for just over $CDN 1,000, plus taxes, plus maybe some new booties or whatever, $1,100 - $1,200.
Which is why I’ve gone (and recommend) the route of starting with a wetsuit, dry top, and now a 2nd hand ($CDN 180) Stohlquist nylon drysuit.
(Unless you’re loaded) Start cheap and experiment to see what works for you, given the conditions that have been described.
P.
But the analogy is inappropriate
All things being equal, a person in traffic in an a suv is no safer than one in a sedan.
ON the other hand, a paddler in his boat on the great lakes in 50 degree water in a dry suit is safer than one in a wetsuit, and both are a good bit safer than one with no immersion protection.
“Analogy is even slipperier than logic”, Robert Heinlein, “Stranger in a Strange land”.
I can understand the merits of a dry
suit over a wet suit, but like Inukshuk want to find a reasonable compromise on what to wear. What should you wear on something like the Bowron that has cold lakes and a glacial fed river to run? Should you wear a dry suit all the time? I understand the whole issue comes down to risk assesment - do you feel lucky punk. I take my safety seriously and want to do the right thing. However, you can easily dress like a tick ready to pop.
Dry vs. wet suit…
As a long time diver but only recently new to kayaking here is my two cents on the wet vs. dry suit from a diving standpoint. Wet suits are almost always easier to put on by yourself. Most dry or semi-dry suits require a friend, loved one or just a passerby to help get in and out of one. Something that should be considered if paddling alone. Also the name dry or semi dry tends to give people an inflated sense of safety. If everything works properly they are dry or semi-dry. If however the seals are old, folded over on themselves, or you lost more weight than you thought - everything stops working properly. Now again this is from a divers point of view - always planning on getting in the water. I’ve been on many a dive trip when someone’s seals failed in their dry suit usually around the back or neck and the suit filled with water. The ankle seals held fine though so no water was leaving the “dry” suit. Fortunately there were plenty of divers around to help out.
Let’s get something straight I’m not knocking dry suits at all in fact for strictly kayaking the dry suit maybe your best bet. Just stay safe and smart - and realize that not everything is always what it seems.
Now for wet suits - if your going that route get a custom fit one. I’ve heard from a lot of people about wet suits being too confining to paddle in, and on top this is pretty true. (Something to consider though if the wet suit feels way too confining; it’s possible that not only is it not doing it’s job correctly it may also be reducing the amount blood flow.) A wet suit should be tight but comfortable. The nature of neoprene really doesn’t allow a great freedom of movement though. However I often paddle in a 7mm farmer john (custom fit); on top I’ll wear whatever the conditions require. Recently I was in Fort Bragg, CA and Noyo Pacific Outfitters had a very interesting paddling jacket - I didn’t get a good look at it but it appeared to be a semi-dry type jacket with additional folds??? around the arms for a greater range of motion and seals at the neck, wrists and waist. Maybe worth checking out.
Good luck either way.
Some Mis Info…
Kayaking drysuits don’t require someone else to help get into. I wouldn’t wear one if so. Also, deep submersion, with accompanying pressure, will test seals much more than submersion in surfaces waters.
I agree checking gaskets for wear, as well as testing for leaks, is something to do.
7 mm wetsuit would make paddling very difficult.
sing
not really…
Like I said I paddle in a farmer john 7mm regularly. It covers your legs and torso and leaves your arms completely free. If fact often even diving I get so warm I have to let a little water in. Always better to be warm than cold.
I agree the paddling dry suit is easier to put on than the diving one - but it seems like most people who “need a hand” have dry suits on diving or not. And like I said a dry suit maybe the best option. But being aware that a dry suit isn’t always dry is also very important. Ideally I think a .5 or 1mm wetsuit under a dry suit would be the best. A wet wetsuit will keep you warmer than a wet dry suit.
Mostly though because cost seemed to be an issue I think a perfectly workable wetsuit solution can be had. Especially because in the end we aren’t really discussing total immersion for any serious lengths of time.
I beg to differ
– Last Updated: Sep-23-04 8:35 PM EST –
I could easily get into and out of my drysuit at least 2 or three times (always unassisted) in the same time it takes me to don the 6mm farmer John from my diving wetsuit. More importantly, I've tried the farmer John exactly once and found that I couldn't even sit comfortably in a kayak with it on, let alone paddle. If it works for you, that's great, but I daresay that you're the rare exception to the rule.
Wearing a wetsuit under a breathable drysuit defeats the purpose. I realize that divers don't use breathable dry suits, but they're a huge advantage for paddling.
I've never experienced a seal failure in four years of heavy dry suit use. Every failure I've seen has occurred when the paddler was donning or removing the suit. Dry suit seals don't fail when paddling.
Many paddlers I know…
need help with their drysuits because they zip across the shoulders. And annkle gaskets can be a drag - I’ve seen people get almost panicky wrestling with them!
I personally can’t imagine paddling in a 7mm wetsuit. At the very least, I’m sure I’d have to cut out the backs of the knees (I’m kneeingly in a ww saddle - I’ve never worn a wetsuit/drysuit in a canoe when not on whitewater.)
Inukshuk1, I’d either stick with the wetsuit, or try to find a cheap drysuit that zips in the front or has a relief zipper.
Yaknot, I wouldn’t wear any wetsuit or drysuit on the Bowron lakes. I’d take proprer clothing and try to make safe decisions considering the water, weather, time, group, etc. And if I had an unlikely/accidently short swim, I’d simply change or just set up camp and get warm. But, to me, that seems too low-probability to bother with the suits.
Cheers, P.
The "analogy"
Re-read my post.
I wasn’t talking about SUV vs seden in TRAFFIC. I was talking about SUV’s capability in off-road mud, which one must agree is better than a seden.
My point being should one get an SUV just in case one MIGHT go off-road? In reality, most SUV are driven on pavement all the time, never going off-road. Just like a dry suit that’s never worn in winter.