6mm farmer john (wetsuit)
6mm jacket (wetsuit)
3mm gloves
3mm full hood
Dive Boots
Mask, fins, and snorkel
In 50 degree water ...
My hands immediately became cold.
My underarms, and crotch got cold.
ANY water that came between my skin and my suit felt like ICE!
At first, it was tolerable.
After 30 minutes, I HAD to get out of the water, shivering.
My fingers were numb; I could barely get my gloves off and unzip my wetsuit.
This was wading in from shore.
Except for my lips, the stinging cold "burn" of the lake water did not come in direct contact with my skin. I cannot imagine what it would have felt like without the boots, gloves, mask, and ESPECIALLY the hood!
Therefore: I no longer kayak in 50 degree water, over my head, in a wetsuit!
Conclusion: If you're confident of your wetsuit, go to a beach and wade in. Dive under, so that you're completely soaked. Then try to swim 100 yards along the shore. Make sure you have others to help you in case you get in trouble. You'll probably be in for a rude awakening.
If you're unwilling to do this, you should ask yourself WHY?
Of course, properly outfitted with a dry suit, you'd probably have fun. ( I just gotta get me one of these some day!)
Cold Water Dead is dead. Period. You’re probably sorry you brought it up, however this is a good topic because if ever a person needs to be more than sensible, this is it.
The rule: Dress for the temperature of the water no matter the air temperature.
I would bet that you would not expect to abandon your gear after taking a plunge and that initial confusion may cost you your life. Either wear a drysuit or don’t paddle in low water temperatures lower than 48° or wear a wetsuit above 50°. I have seen fools in the water unable to do anything even speak.
In addition to dry or wet gear good gloves. I use Nordic Blues for really cold or fleece lined neoprene when temps greater than 20 or 25 deg. I also use a 1mm fuzzy rubber hood over a fleece hat or a dive hood. I always swim before I paddle just to get my face ready and to check my gear.
For the very reason why I don't wear my dry suit.
Why spend between $300 to $500 on a dry suit, and then be sweaty and uncomfortable, if you are going to be close enough to shore to swim twenty or thirty feet.
You evidently didn't read my last sentence or if you did are too closed minded.
Each year we go through this argument. I suggest that in Jan or February you go have a chat with one of the "L street Brownies" over at Carson Beach and see what they have to say about a short cold water swim.
Uhhh… I saw it in person once and watch the clips every year. No one really swims. They run in. Some make a quick dive in and surface. Then everyone runs back to shore, mostly straight into the bathhouse…
Great PR/spectacle. But, really, no one swims for any appreciable distance (probably less than 20-30 feet).
Gloves Nordic Blues, if you can get someone to help you get the second one on or have some really good technique (anyone want to share?) for doing it alone.
Also, they are coming out with diving gloves now that are gasketed to work with a diving drysuit, we’ve had be warm in 34 degree water and are a lot easier to get on and off by yourself than the Nordic Blues. Also better paddle feel. Ours are by brand Deep Six, were brand new items last season, but I suspect that if you visit a dive shop you’ll find they have competitors now.
More Important… than a drysuit, get down a solid roll before heading out in the winter. If you don’t, really think of getting a good paddle float rescue down on flat water and don’t go out unless conditions are benigh. Otherwise, have good partners who you have done assisted rescues with and know each other well.
I love paddling in the winter. Honestly, I did not even think of heading out until I had a solid roll. I think I already had a drysuit before the solid (combat tested) roll. But, to me, over reliance on accumulated gear is a mistake. I’ve seen folks go outfitted to the nines. Made me think they had something besides gear. Turned out they had gear and little in the way of skills. You got to practice your skills. Can always buy your gear later (so you can look like a “real” seakayaker as well as be actually a competent one…)
It keeps getting mentioned, but I really don't think that the experience of swimming intentionally in cold water is a good guide to what will happen to you if you capsize unexpectedly in sub 40F water without a fully insulated dry suit.
Nevertheless, here is an interesting article on someone who does it intentionally... and survives. But it's as instructive for what it feels like as it is for the fact that he does it. (You'll need NYTimes free registration to read the whole thing.)
In case anybody brings it up, I don't think the experience in water-permeable clothing will be substantially different than what this guy gets on bare skin -- just delayed a couple seconds.
But to return to the issue of "how far" -- yes, if you stay 20-30 feet offshore, you will most likely be able to swim to shore -- but not certainly. And what about a companion -- a child, perhaps? But is 20-30 feet offshore worth it -- doesn't sound like a lot of fun to me.
Spring fed small lake in Mi in Sept I’m wondering how the weather will be and how much the water temperature may have chilled. (Pine Lake near Doster/Plainwell)
I’m going up in two weeks, taking my wet suit with me but I’ve not used it yet. Sort of figured I might want to wear it when I go on my mixed vacation family visit in two weeks.
Should I test the wet suit by going for a swim somewhere first? I’ve not had the farmer john wet suit wet yet.
One of the only useful rules of thumb… …I’ve heard regarding paddling is the “50/50/50” rule which states: Without adequate immersion clothing, you have a 50% chance of being able to swim 50 yards to safety in 50 degree water.
Most people have almost no concept of how debilitating cold water is and how rapidly it can incapacitate you. I’ve spent a lot of time in water in the 40’s and 50’s. When training/teaching in those conditions, I intentionally overdress (extra layers in my dry suit), knowing that I’m going to be in the water for extended amounts of time (up to ~30 minutes), but I still begin to feel the effects after 20 minutes or so. More importantly, in cold water, it can take only a minute or two for your hands to become useless if you’re not properly dressed. Once that happens, you can no longer help yourself or effectively assist others in rescuing you. Essentially, you’re 100% dependent on outside help. It make take many minutes or even hours for you to succumb to hypothermia, but you’re as good as dead unless someone comes along and rescues you.
If you want to know if your immersion clothing is up to the task, simply walk into the water and see what happens. You’ll know in a hurry if you’re adequately protected and you’ll also gain valuable experience in the effects of cold water.
Paddling in cold water is serious business, but it can certainly be done safely if one it properly prepared. The key thing to remember is that your margin for error gets smaller as the temperature drops. Solid bracing, rolling and rescue skills are critically important to paddling cold water safely. Should that fail, a VHF radio to summon help is invaluable. If you’re not able to spend the money for adequate clothing, gear and training, you’re better off to stay off the water for a winter while you save up the needed funds. Winter paddling is great, but it’s not worth dying for.
Celia, you’re not using gloves… …with rings are you? While they’re great for diving where you cannot and do not take your gloves off, I wouldn’t use them for kayaking. Once you take the gloves off - which is sometimes necessary - you’ve compromized the seals of your dry suit.
"Swimming intentionally in cold water is one thing. Being unexpectedly dunked in it is another. "
I don't see the difference.
Instead of talk, I've been there myself. Being a whitewater paddler, I've paddled in spring on river when I can see ice floating along the shore. How "warm" can the water be? And that was before I had a good roll. So swimming in icy water I did my share!
Sure, the cold water "sting" and "burn". But I expected it to hurt so I didn't panic. Though I can see there may be many others who would (panic). In that case, I don't know what would happen. Maybe they even drown 5 ft from shore!
Whatever "gasp reflex" people talk about may even be real. But it doesn't happen to everybody. Or NO ONE should be paddling in cold water, drysuit or otherwise. End of discussion.
Not with rings These Deep Six and similar generation gloves have a double soft latex/neo sleeve, basically a wrist version of a dry top double tunnel except executed in a latex/neo blend. Since they were new even to the dive shops around here this last fall, they may not have hit broad use yet among paddlers. Just with anyone who paddled last winter with Jim and I…
A friend of ours is good about bothering to mate them with the drysuit latex gasket and finds it works well. But I find the gloves to be warm enough even if a little water gets in there - they have a waterproof membrane layer that will warm up even a little cold water with the heat of your hands once you start paddling again. And even with being easier than Nordic Blues, there is nothing simple about dealing with drysuit wrist gaskets in the cold with thick fingered gloves.
Also hoods Not to be taken lightly - you lose something like 20% of your body heat just thru your head. Something like the Mystery Hood by NRS should be the minimum once water and/or air temps get under 50, unless you have tested this out and found that you have good tolerance for a sudden dunk in colder temps than that.
This is another area where diving shops often offer a better assortment than you’ll find in paddling circles.
And absolutely nothing will be much good in a real emergency unless you resolve to keep getting into the water, at least wading in and sticking your face into the water, as the water temp cools off. If you do that into the fall you’ll find that, with proper clothing and diligent head wetting, the water won’t feel shockingly cold and likely cause a gasp response until somewhere into the lower 40’s or so. But if you don’t, you could be in truble if you took a surprise swim in warmer water.
drysuit & hood mitigates 90% gasp reflex go over in cold water with a drysuit and a decent hood you barely notice it. Not likely to see the gasp reflex then.
Jack you do what you do and that’s way cool, for you.
A prudent mariner has many rings of defense. I do not advocate going without gear that enables you to swim for a good while. while you are not going to get blown out to the center of a pond by wind you cannot handle, plenty of newbies do. IN the last 20 years or so there have been ten deaths in warm air cold water scenarios on the nearest “lake” to me. My freezer is full now, so I recommend immersion protection for anyone novice enough not to understand the risks they are taking.
I snorkel well into October until the water gets too cold. Mid September should be fine with just a wetsuit.
Even with the wet suit, I think you will be amazed at how cold you will get in the water, and how fast, especially if you are not wearing boots, gloves or a hood. Especially with your head wet. My suggestion is to take that swim. In fact, do it NOW to get used to the suit.
First, put on EVERYTHING you own. The gloves, boots, hood or whatever you have. Then go into the water this way. Don’t forget to go completely under! Now, once acclimated to the water conditions, start removing accessory items. First, the boots. Then the gloves. Finally the hood. In this way, you will learn how great the comfort difference will be with and without these items. If you’re still comfortable, remove the wet suit. Then you’ll know exactly how much comfort each item gives you.
This time of year, snorkeling lower Michigan lakes, I wear my 6mm jacket and 3mm gloves. I usually start wearing a hood mid to late September. By October, I’m fully decked out with a 6mm farmer john, 6mm jacket, hood, gloves and boots. Close to Halloween, I can no longer deal with the cold water and I’m done snorkeling for the year.
Kayaking in mid september, I think you would be fine without boots or hood. A hood is probably overkill for this time of year. But if you have one, try it on just to see for yourself what a difference it makes!
Again, try out the gear you own, and then you can make a good judgement on what you want to wear for the current conditions.