It just takes a very long time and it seems like there should be a better way.
noted
I find his knot skills inferior but I spent every summer at sailing camp, standing at a post with a rope in the hot sun. This weekend I learned the Underwriterās Knot to rewire a lamp.
Thanks for all the great information everyone.
I will be applying it very soon.
I take screen shots and keep them in a folder in my iPhone and that way I can advise him from my designated care seat
The easier way to handle strapping, roping or placing a kayak on the roof is tyo have a car short enough that no extra height is involved to secure the things.
But it has been a long time since vehicles that are best at carrying things kayaks and a lot of gear have been short enough to work from the ground unless someone is pretty tall. That went the way of the dodo as they gradually stopped making a true station wagon. What I do is about preserving safety and that is worthy of time.
I also question whether this can be resolved on this site. I found like many that it was not possible for me to help nmy husband pack a car. This did not work out. But now that I am doing it all myself, I rather envy the time when all I had to do was get things out by the car.
Yes, I am already very thankful to have him haul my gear and dog around in a canoe so I can kayak. I am still happy to read all this because I do have input and have done it alone, just not usually.
Iāve always used cam straps (Thule and NRS) and use mostly pairs of 12ā to 15ā ones. I have a strict routine system that eliminates the tiresome and time-consuming reaching and threading. I am usually hauling 2 boats solo so here is the sequence.:
- I take two pairs of the 12ā straps and loop them around the rear Thule rack, moving the loops to be side by side at the middle of the rack and having both ends drape down over the rear window/tailgate of the car
- I take the pairs of 15ā straps and do the same with the front rack, draping the centered ends over the car hood.
- I load both boats on the rack ā because I have a dinky SUV the rack crossbars s are attached to the factory lateral rack on the car and they are spaced so closely that when my kayaks are loaded hull up, the coamings fit snugly between the racks, which increases security since they canāt slide forward or back.
- I walk to the back of the car and grab both ends of each of the 12ā straps and toss them over each boat hull, left and right
- I walk to one side of the car and pull the loose end of that strap to shorten the buckle until it rests flush along the side of the boat.
- I lace the l now longer loose end of the strap under BOTH the factory rack and the Thule crossbar and bring it up to connect it to the buckle laying against the boat hull.
- I thread the strap end through the cam buckle and snug it up, then wrap the long loose end as many times as it takes around the factory rack or the extended end of rack and double knot it. Important to always assure that the tension on the strap is pulling in line with how it exits the cam buckle before knotting.
- Repeat on the other side.
- I do the same in the front, and have the longer straps in the front to make it easier to toss them over the long boats, which extend farther in the front than the back.
I use rope or the Thule braided line and cam tied-downs to fasten both boats independently at bow and stern, to the carās trailer hitch in the rear and to under-hood strap loops in the front.
This way I can load the boats without having to use a step ladder. Usually only takes me about 10 minutes to completely load and secure two sea kayaks or one kayak and the canoe. I could easily add double straps at the same time.
I do understand about not wanting any help with this process ā I am kind of a fanatic about it because I had too many instances in the past where āhelpersā made mistakes in the strapping and tying, in one instance failing to loop the strap around the crossbars on the inside (fortunately I caught that mistake before we hit the highway. I donāt let anyone touch the straps or bow/stern lines nor even talk to me while I am loading. i have it down to a precise set of operations and speed and security depend on no distractions. But if your OCD mate is threading the straps AFTER loading the boats he is making more work for himself.
Setting up the straps on the car before you load, so they are ready to flip and fasten, is the secret to making loading quicker and easier.
None of my straps are faded and none has ever failed, even though my first set of Thule straps is at least 30 years old and has been used annually since then. I store them in a duffel bag between uses and regularly wash them to get abrasive road dirt out of the material (placed loosely in a mesh drawstring ādelicatesā bag in warm water and mild detergent like Woolite on gentle cycle in the washing machine, then air dried on the line in my basement.)
My wife and I side load our 17ā and 18ā boats over the side working together. We have the discontinued Yakima Mako saddles with the integral straps we use on local trips. The straps and cambuckles are in good shape and we have spares. We each strap our own boats. We then use Thule bow and stern tiedowns modified to eliminate the open hook attached to front and rear towing eyes on opposing corners. She does the front and I do the back. Takes a little over 10 minutes.
For longer trips we double everything with a second set of straps that go around the boat, crossbars, and roof rails. In this case the second pair of tiedowns go on the same side as the boat.
As noted, that Thule Bow & Stern kit is (to be polite) horrible. I had it came with a set of stackers I bought. I did squeeze down the hook but still only used them for a few miles. Pulled over & switched to my ropes & truckers hitches. I didnāt like how the blockes tightened & hated seeing the big block of metal & plastic swinging around in the wind.
The ropes however do make some pretty good bow lines.
Screenshot
Thanks for taking the time to pound that out.
We will give it a go I love making people improve their methodology
I donāt like it when people stress themselves out and refuse to delegate. So even if he insists on doing it, if I can help by offering suggestionsā¦he accepts that pretty well (what choice does he have?)
I only use the Thule Bow and Stern kits to take advantage of the locking cam. Iāve replaced the open hooks with load rated locking carabiners and after I have used the cam to tighten and tension the line, I tie off the ends so the tie down is secured independent of the cam: essentially there are 3 parallel lines involved so even if the cam stop fails OR the carabiner breaks, the line will still be securely knotted and fastened. The free end of the line that exits the cam is secured by passing it back through the boat carry handle and then using 6 to 8 half hitches around the line beyond the cam. Itās kind of a complicated method and hard to illustrate, but it provides a backup.
Iāve done a lot of rope rigging for rock and ice climbing, alpine mountaineering, vertical caving and associated rescue practice, as well as spending many years securing loads of construction materials for hauling and hoisting. I make sure that no situation could fail due to one piece of hardware.
Maybe he would accept delegating you to lay out the straps on the roof to prep for loading? He could tell at a glance when youāre finished if they are ācorrectlyā placed. Then, after you both hoist the boats into place, he can proceed to do the flipping, cinching and strapping himself. And maybe while he does that he would let you run the bow and stern lines through the connection points on both ends of the boats, leaving them to him to do final tie-off.
I know itās hard to reason with control freaks, but I thought Iād picked up from your narratives that heād been through military training, where I thought the value of teamwork, effective delegation and organized cooperative practices were stressed as much or more so than independent initiative.
Sorry, call me a "control freakā if you will. But no one who is not already on my canoe team and who I also trust has experience tying their own canoes down multiple times, then they will not tie my canoe to my roof top. If they are a trusted team member, I will still check every loop and every knot and the finished job for security and loose ends. it is not worth the consequences to myself if something is not done properly and there is an incident.
Not only military training but he has senior rank . People do what he asks them to do.
Had a cam fail several years ago while I was tying down the kayak at home. Glad it happened then and that I noticed it. Grabbed a spare tie down that I keep handy and merily drove to go paddling.
He was a jump wing commander ANGLICO so yea.
I like the idea of me laying out the lines because as it is now, I just sit in the car and it takes too long. And no, I donāt want to paddle in one canoe with him.
The trick is letting him think the new method is his idea. With Willowās instructions, I think I can do it.
NOTHING is fail/break proof!
This is a great point about the car you are strapping it onto. My last two car shopping rounds, a low roof height was one of my criteria, and Iām thankful every weekend as I singlehandedly load and unload my kayaks. I can slide the boat on and off the roof, and the cam strap buckle is right in front of my face.
I too have not had one fail in personal experience, but I have heard of it happening and I did see in person the canoe which had sustained catastrophic damage as a result.
The little springs that hold the cam closed in some of the straps are pretty puny and it is not difficult to image one failing. The incident in question involved a Wenonah Voyager being cartopped at highway speeds. This is a long boat and there was no bow tie down line securing the bow. When the forward strap failed, the oncoming wind lifted the bow like a sail. The gunwales broke in half at the location of the rear rack bar and the fabric of the sides of the Kevlar hull tore all the way down to the chines.
The air force on the canoe, now bent at nearly a right angle resulted in the rear rack being torn completely off the vehicle and the canoe and rear rack would up on the highway. A bow tie down probably would have prevented this disaster.
I do use cam straps all the time but I use straps that have excess length that allow at least a couple of half hitches to be tied around the strap in case the cam fails, and I do use bow tie downs on long boats.
Bow tie-downs are easy to add. I canāt imagine going without one, even if only for a few miles at sub-highway speeds. Also, if you have a shorter boat and canāt easily see the bow from the driverās seat, movement of the tie down line can warn of a shifting boat up top.