Dry tops/pants & Farmer John wetsuit
The Farmer John wetsuit came about due to another long thread I participated in here on Pnet. I was trying to come up with cold-weather paddling clothes, but didn’t have the funds available for a full-on drysuit. I had found the farmer john for a really low price at a local Goodwill store. So, I picked it up. I was informed that, in the very least, this is a step in the right direction for cold weather immersion protection if I layer it under my other gear.
At the time that I got the farmer john, I did not have the semi-dry top or pants yet. I only recently (past week) got the IR Session 2.5 top and the Level 6 Current pants. I didn’t know for sure if I still needed the farmer john under the semi-dry top and pants or not, but I figured it couldn’t hurt anything to wear them anyway. At the very least, it would add an extra layer of insulation and immersion protection in case the semi-dry top and pants were on the leaky side, as some said they might be.
I’ll admit, the farmer john under all the other layers felt tight, restrictive, and was not the most comfortable clothing I’ve ever worn. However, I soon came to grips with it as long as it kept me warm and offered some form of cold water immersion protection. After testing the waterproofiness of the semi-dry top and pants, though, now I’m wondering if the farmer john is necessary. Maybe I’d be more comfortable and just as warm if I replaced it with another light layer of fleece top and bottom.
Pedal with your feet to keep them active
It helps your stroke as well. Press against the pedal on the side that you are drawing the paddle back with each stroke. It will help with your rotation and keep your feet warmer. That said, if you are in sandals rather than full paddle shoes, I can’t vouch for how effective pedaling will be for you.
Sandals…
The reason I was wearing water sandals with velcro straps was because I had several layers on my feet to try keeping them warm. I could not fit them into regular water shoes without seriously constricting the layers and my feet. I normally wear a size 9.5 shoe. I picked up a cheap pair of size 12 velcro-strap water sandals at Goodwill. They’re big enough for me to strap footwear of some type onto my feet while wearing all the layers.
Not that I really need to spend (or will be allowed to spend) more money on paddling gear, but what kind of paddling shoes would be recommended that could keep your feet warm in sub-freezing temperatures?
NRS wetshoes or mukluks
The NRS wetshoes go over the ankles so are decent. And with them, you don’t need so many layers on your feet as you had. Better yet mukluks, either Chota or the thicker neoprene diving boots. Same price as paddle wear but a mill or so thicker. And again, if big enough you can drop a layer or two.
Going to email you…
Real test
is to tip over in cold water so your head goes at least 3 feet under and re-enter and tip over and swim fifty yards.
Putting your head under cold water upside down, and having to swim for your life in all that gear, might make you prioritize what you are wearing.
My mukluks take on water when submersed
over the top - they don’t seal on my legs. Feet get cold pretty fast with mukluks full of water and they are difficult to swim in, once water filled.
Check back after a few more paddles
Ye gods, it must take you half an hour to get dressed. You have taken the art of layering and turned it into a veritable lasagna of wardrobe.
Glove liners inside mitten shells will not stay warm and dry if you capsize, or even stick your arm in the water. Wearing a fleece beanie over the neoprene hood is downright bizarre. Spray will soak that beanie.
Instead of wool socks AND neoprene socks AND “launch socks” AND water sandals…why not wool socks inside neoprene booties? Better yet, wool socks inside Chota Mukluks (keep your lower legs warm, not just your feet).
Maybe you’re planning on never capsizing; hence, the mitten shells and beanie over hood. Post back after you’ve done some more paddles in that lasagna. If immersion doesn’t make you change some items, ending every paddle soaked in your own sweat will.
Lasagna takes a long time…
Yes, this mess takes quite a while to put on and take off. I’ll admit that. But, I am new at all this cold-weather paddling stuff and trying to learn. Personally, I’d rather start off way overdressed for the weather and peel back the layers with each successive paddling session until I find a combination that works with as few layers as possible. I’d rather take a little time to put it all on and possibly be a little too warm during my paddling. I can handle that better than wearing too few layers, freezing out on the water and having to cut my paddling session short.
No worries. I’ll play around with the system and find out what works for me. The next time I go out paddling, I’m probably going to try it without the farmer john wetsuit.
Yes, the fleece beanie over the neo hood was probably overkill, but it was freakin’ 20°F out. It was my first time trying out the neo hood. I didn’t feel like finding out at that time that the neo hood won’t keep me as warm as I would like. So, I wore the fleece hat as an additional layer figuring I could easily take it off if I got too warm.
Yes, I have a lot of layers on my feet, but that’s because my feet seem to get cold no matter what I do. So, I’m trying different layering schemes. The liner socks wick the moisture off my feet. The wool socks provide insulation and additional wicking. The neo socks add more insulation with some immersion protection. And the launch socks add a waterproof layer on top of it all.
Yes, the Gore-Tex mittens and Thermasilk glove liners are going to fill up with water and be cold and wet in the event of an immersion. In fact, I experienced that when I fell in the water when I was trying to get out of my kayak at the take-out. I have a pair of NRS Maverick neo gloves. I’ll try those out during my next paddle session. However, during some ice bucket testing I did in my kitchen, the mittens kept my hands much warmer than the neo gloves. That’s why I chose to wear the mittens while paddling in 20° air temps!
If you turst the drywear to stay dry
You don’t need the neoprene underneath. A fleece layer or some long johns would probably be more comfortable.
Keep testing (especially in the water)
Experience will tell you what works best for you.
Cold Feet
I am an open boater and I have tried everything (short of foot warmers) to keep my feet warm. The only thing that works is to get out on occation and walk around. I guess that gets the bood flowing.
Yeah, water comes in the top
But my mukluks are actually diving boots - thicker than the usual paddling boots in terms of millimeter though the same of cheaper cost. And I can’t say it is the loosest fit with full winter layers… they get wet but they don’t acquire sloshing water.
The thinner neo mukluks designed for paddling seem to get “saggier” looking than mine get when wet.
From a Fellow Openboater
Try those “Toasti Toes” foot warmers. I only use them when it’s really cold, but always have a couple pair in my dry bag this time of year.
My Chota Lites can get sloshy when
over-topped. They they don’t want to stay on as well, either.
My feet get colder when kneeling, since
the top of the mukluk is less insulated than the bottom and it is stretched tight against the top of the foot, which is pressed against the hull, which is the same temperature as the water.
You’re doing fine.
I’ve used a farmer john and ultra-flexible long-sleeved neoprene top under a dry top and dry pants for years. And I’m a wet paddler, often surfing at the beach, occasionally swimming - accidental or intentional, and it’s rare that I don’t at least roll a number of times. I get away with a thinner, more flexible layer of neoprene that isn’t so restricting, and I don’t have to worry about a little leak. No going home because a little water flushed in.
Speaking of flushing - or getting flushed. I believe that’s wetsuit terminology for anytime some new cold water flushes under your neoprene. The more turbulence, the more it happens. Too loose of a fit, the more it happens. Any thickness to layering underneath your wetsuit, the more it happens. You do not want this. I wear nylon/poly briefs/speedo and an ultra-thin rashguard and nothing more under my neoprene layer for this reason. I’ve had a few surfers tell me they wear nothing at all. When you first jump in the water in neoprene only, you get flushed. Your body is easily and quickly able to heat this thin layer, and the neoprene insulates it enough that you can stay comfortable. But it isn’t the water that insulates you. The more you minimize the film of water, and the less it’s flushed, the longer you stay warm and comfortable. If your dry wear lets no water in at all - it’s actually all the better. The neoprene is more effective, not less.
The dry wear, wet wear combination actually works quite well both in water and out. As far as time and layers, one person gets up in the morning and slips on fleece. I get up and slip on neoprene. If there are more layers necessary, we both add more layers on top of that. At the water, we both put on our dry gear. When I get home, I take off neoprene and am wet underneath. Neoprene is certainly less comfortable than fleece, but it’s not actually uncomfortable to me, meaning I’m not feeling consciously bothered during wear. So my layers aren’t necessarily any more time consuming than anyone elses I wouldn’t figure.
Just wanted to let you know that just because you’re a beginner, doesn’t mean your idea is all that crazy. If it gets you safely paddling on your budget, that’s what counts.
Yup, walk around
My feet have never gotten that cold while paddling, but it used to be a frequent thing way back when I biked throughout the winter, right down to 5 degrees F.
I tried all kinds of layering combos, some of which were good for most of my rides. But below a certain temperature, nothing was warm enough. Solution: Get out before total numbness set in, and walk around a little. And still expect horribly cold feet at the end. That means having another set of footwear waiting, ones with thick fuzzy insulation.
Whoa, I forgot the sock liners!
Five layers on your feet!
Sorry, don’t mean to be flip. We’ve all done our share of experimenting.
I do think you win the award for most layers, though!
20°F!
The air temp was 20°F, pikabike. It takes lots of layers to stay warm in those temps!
No worries, though. I have a pair of NRS Cross-4 boots on the way. Those should be able to replace a few layers for me.
Good Point
Nowadays, I usually don’t paddle much more than an hour before getting out to stretch my legs.