Explain why I cant use my rec yak..

What do you mean you don’t…
Play in rough water?! What do you think we did down at Bunny’s? I mean Longshadow’s… I mean Jim’s… I mean Bunnyshadow’s… errrr, Bunnyslongshadow… Jimshadowslongbunny… Damn what were we talking about? Oh yea, we played in rough water…

Paddle easy,


Is that 5 foot divided by two or 5 foot?
Which wave classification? Mine, yours or theirs? LMAO!!! Hell, I am 5’-8", so I would say that I wouldn’t take it in those conditions.

No need to answer…lol

Paddle easy,


a few
runs at a dam run off does not makea WW boat. Also if ya recall, I inspected the river bottom while borrowing your Critter.:slight_smile: (the bottom was clean BTW. )


Thanks to all…
that replied. I’m going to listen to my gut and to the seasoned paddlers. My rec yak is perfect for my main interest in boating and that’s poking around on slow rivers and lakes. That’s what I like to do most anyway. I’m going to look into getting a ww boat weather it be a sit-in or a SOT. I think a SOT would be better that way maybe I can get my wife out on the lakes with me. I paddled a torrent yesterday and the darn thing paddled like a tank but I think that may because I had a WW paddle and it was way too short for that type of boat. Again, my thanks to everyone.

don’t take a chance friend
Les is correct. I’ve seen it happen. There is no support for the boat. Whitewater boats have pillars. That is why whitewater boats are so much more expensive than a rec boat. They have been built and tested. Don’t take a chance friend. I’ve seen someone pinned in a rec boat. It scared me.

Class three on the hiwasee in tn?
I’m reading that devils shoals is class two plus.

I’ve been down it quite a bit in my youth and that is one heck of a haystack at the end but I think it’s really high volume class two plus.

Then again I have not done any white water for 28 years so my opinion on that is not worth much.

BTW I’ve drunk with the webb brothers no doubt long gone now.

Is ther still a mineral springs dance hall? Great place and the ladies will teach you the steps, but never ever be rude to a lady there. The boys will teach some manners.

why not a canoe
You may have a had time trying to find a small WW kayak that is going to fit you - 300 lbs, that’s not small.

Have you considered a WW canoe? Outfit it with float bags and there are a ton of river runners out there that can handle class II, and dedicated ww canoes that can handle a lot bigger water - and most of the time they can haul a bigger load. Start with these companies: Mad River (Freedom, a few ded ww boats), Mohawk (Odyssey 14 and a bunch of ded ww boats), Nova Craft (supernova), Wenonah (argosy, rendevous), Bell (Yellowstone Solo, and look for a larger version for the bigger guys soon), Blue Hole, Swift, Whitesell, etc.

There are some longer kayaks out there that can handle the heavier stuff, you’re not going to be playing around right? Riot Voyager, Sun Velocity, Prijon Yukon and Combi, etc.

I have a canoe…
I have an OT Penobscot 17. I would give class II a shot with it in a heartbeat if I bought some floatation bags. I kinda dig kayaks that’s all:-)

solo canoe
Your 17 penobscot would not be much fun in whitewater, at least when compared to a kayak. There are, however, a number of solo whitewater canoes that have a lot of rocker and are a blast to paddle in moving water. They are nimble, short and deep. For your size I would not recoomend the really short ones( 9-12 feet), but one of the larger ones(13-14+). The larger ones with also paddle better on the flats. Look for a used one to keep your cost down.

Larger version of Bell Yellowstone soon

Your comment about looking for a new larger version of the Bell Yellowstone to come out soon interests me. I currently own a Bell Wildfire (royalex) and had often thought that for 6 day trip to the BWCA a slightly larger version would be nice. Do you have any info as to the proposed dimensions/weight of this new model.



I’ve spoke with some folks at Bell a couple months ago and inquired about a river solo that has a little more length than the wildfire (Yellowstone Solo). Somewhere in the 15 - 15.5’ range and in royalex, maybe something similar to a merlin II with a little more depth and moving water tweaks.

They said there are working on it - didn’t give a time frame tho.

People take canoes
and smaller rafts down class II rivers all the time. Do they have these white water reinforcements?

Open tops
Canoes and rafts have open tops, so getting your legs pinned by a collapsed deck is not an issue.

Just ask… “the bobber”…lol

Depending on your paddling skill, you can run Class II with a Perception America 13.5. I’ve run Class III with mine. You need a skirt that fits well, some reasonable water reading skills, and a decent low brace. The very same things you need in a whitewater boat.

Is it more likely to pin than WW boats? Heck yeah. Does that mean that you can’t run water with it? That’s your choice.

My first water water experiences were with an open 17’ Grumman aluminum canoe with a keel, and I wasn’t the only guy running whitewater in that style either! The Perception America is more maneuverable, faster, has less draw, and has better overall stability. Why would I NOT run water I had scoped and felt comfortable in it? The people who tell you otherwise are making the best the enemy of the good. There are better boats, so you shouldn’t use a perfectly suitable boat that’s not as well suited as the best boat. Poppycock.

There are Class III rapids I have seen that I would not want to use that boat in, and others that I have no qualms whatever. I have not seen any Class II that I wouldn’t paddle the America into.

  • Big D

perfectly suitable boat?
Poppycock. How about barely suitable, requiring excellent paddling skills to overcome the problems.

Re: Skills

– Last Updated: May-25-05 2:00 PM EST –

This is only my second season for major paddling. by "major" I mean being on the water every chance I can get. I know how I learn best and being on the water learning how to read the water and what to do with that information is key for me. I have a new SOT yak (Perception Torrent) and I believe that in the long run learning the river on it will make me a better paddler. My America will still get plenty of use (more than the Torrent) because what I enjoy most is being one with nature and enjoying all of which she has to offer and for me that's poking around on lakes and slow rivers with my binoculars. If I never run another rapid again that's fine with me. I just like to paddle.

For Class II? Class II? Come on
That boat is perfectly suitable for Class II. I highly respect your knowledge and opinions Dr. Disco, and were it any other boat than this one with which I have so much experience on such different types of water, I would take your word even over my own.

Seriously, the Perception America 13.5 handles Class II water with no problems.

Class III is the top of the range, at least for someone with my paddling skills, and certainly not something that I would recommend for anyone else. Not because I’m that great of a paddler, I’m not, but because stretching equipment beyond it’s design should be a personal decision made without undue influence.

But for solid Class II stuff, not a problem. It’s actually a lot of fun in big wave trains - even moreso than some WW boats (for running through purposes - not play or surf purposes).

  • Big D