Equipment makes a difference. Why would I want to fight the boat all the time if I can have a boat that would suit my needs?
Of course the "engine" matters, but if all else was of no significance, we'd all be paddling $200 ten-foot recreational plasic boats -;)
I bought two boats this year that I sold or am selling, because I did not understand well enough what I wanted. Both were very good for their intended uses but I did not understand the subtleties about them and they did not serve me well. Trying not to repeat that again, so spending some time here and verifying that with on-water experience first hand is very useful for me.
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You wrote:
"Sometimes paddlers spend too much time talking about fast boats, and seem to forget the issue most often is who is driving the boat. Take someone like Doug Bushnell who could beat a lot of guys that are half his age and do it in a far "slower" boat. I think of a line from the local bikeshop when someone came in looking for a fast bike: "we don't have fast bikes-just fast riders."
Extreme & Viviane I own both of these. I don’t use the skeg on the Viv nor the rudder on the Extreme, so I have no problems to report, and no limiting factors to discuss due to the existence of either. After paddling the Viviane for a while, the first time out in the Extreme I’ll hit the sides with my paddle once in a while at first. That’s about as much significance as I myself find with that. I have no problems getting a good catch once I get to paddling. The Vivianne has a lot of room between the backrest and the cockpit coaming, and the cockpit coaming is rounded in such a way as to allow me to lay back further in the Viv than in the Extreme. The Viviane will weathercock a bit more in light winds than the Extreme. The Extreme turns more easily - I put my boats on edge when I turn them, not sure how they compare if you’re sitting upright and trying to turn. The stability thing with the Vivianne may throw you off, as it has little secondary stability. You can rely on some secondary stability to hold you steady in the Extreme that won’t be there in the Viv. Getting the knack of that will make you a better paddler in my opinion, not to say that the Viv is a better boat because of it. I’m honestly not sure which one is faster. I wanted to use the Viv in the Wrightsville Beach Challenge last spring (small local race), but I couldn’t attend that day. The year before I used the Extreme, and came in far in front of the other sea kayaks (naturally bested by some surf-skis). I can’t say that allows any conclusions about the boat, but it lends itself more to the Extreme being a fast kayak than a slow one I imagine. I haven’t gotten to run my Viv in the same race yet though. You can take nice, long rides in both of them through the surf. The Viv has given me the longest ride I’ve ever gotten without broaching entering an inlet through the surf. All sea kayaks typically broach at some point, and the Extreme gives your typical wave cross under the bow first behavior breaking free of the side surf. The Viv tends to let the stern over the wave first and the wave pushes the bow back forward to facing the same direction. This can be controlled by moving your brace forward at the end of your side-surf if turning back out is what you desire, but it’s just an interesting thing to me - can’t say it’s a decisive factor for me. If I had to give one up, I’d give up the Viv, and I figure it’s all subjective as I find both to be fun boats. I’m thankful I don’t have to give one up, as I enjoy them both. You look at the boat right in front of you, and comparativley (with it’s fish form) the Extreme looks like your in a large boat after sitting in a Swede-form hull, until you edge and maneuver and realize it doesn’t handle that way at all.
I’m 6’ 175 lbs and a Rumour was too small for reasonable comfort for me. I have a Legend. Maybe not as fast as the Extreme and Viv, but has good speed and actually seems fast when you’re paddling it (that impression often meaningless). More maneuverable. Solid secondary stability. It has the lower volume. Do I personally prefer it to the Extreme? Definitely no. But it may be worth a try if you thought you could fit into a Rumour - just a larger Foster design.
Well, one at a time. I also thought of the Legend, the store had it right next to the Rumor, and would have demoed it too but each boat was $10 to paddle for 30 minutes so I limited myself to three that day... I knew I'd like the Legend but was curious how the very tight (for me) Rumor would feel. I've always admired the few folks in slim low-volume tight-fitting greenland boats that I paddle with and I thought, let me try it. I can tell you ti was scary at first - it was hard for me to let go off the floating dock to put my skirt on! The thing is tippy and offers pretty much no initial and very weak secondary stability for my height - heck my shoulders are wider than its hull and my center of gravity is way up. May be if it did not have a seat and I gained 1" lower center it would be better. But again, after 15-20 minutes of paddling I felt very good in it, but still had to throw the occasional brace here and there...
The smaller hard-chined CDs are different boats than the Extreme/Viviane though and I am not particularly looking for one of them at this time. I'd love to have both flavors but there's simply no justification for the little paddling I do. Plus I'm trying to sell two of my boats (check the classifieds here or on the Washington DC craigs list) and that takes precedence and will be a source of funds for anything coming in in the future...
Viviane in the DC area… Well I happen to know where there is one that you can paddle if you choose to…I have one!
I am a bit north of the DC area but still in the region. I live in Havre de Grace… nice trip for a weekend and I live close to the water.
I really like the Viviane a lot. I am a guy who has owned a million kayaks and the Viv is one that I may have settled on (along with a Romany S to cover the other end of the spectrum).
I really think it would be a good boat for someone your size and I personally really like the boat. The secondary is a little tender but not too much so. It seems to “stiffen up” in rough water a bit and stiffens up significantly with a load.
The rudder and / or skeg option is nice.
I find it weathercocks fairly badly in light winds, but it is controlled with the skeg…but in high winds it does not weathercock. Strange phenomenon explained in one of my other posts. Hard to believe but it’s true.
I would think that the QCC 700 would also be a great boat, but I don’t know if it would do well with someone you size.
Viviane I should have remembered your posts on the Viviane! I might take you up on your offer to try it some day - I’m not that far from you.
There will be a race that is “knot a race” (chek Events forum at CPA if you have not). I think right up your alley and a little bit north. It seems like it will be fun to do. I want to go but I’m not sure if I’ll find the time to go as it is a 100 miles one way. But if you plan to go I might just have the extra incentive to drive up there -
some boats paddle with more ease than others, some paddle faster but are more tender, some are more seaworthy but slower—boats are different and do make a difference.
I agree with you on the secondary stbility of the Vivane—I paddled one in a demo pond last year and found out about its secondary stability the hard way
Viviane’s Secondary… Well I think the Viviane has okay secondary. It does not have a noticeable wall to lean against so it doesn’t give you any feedback when you have gone to the limit of its balance point…but it is quite easy to balance on edge once you know where that location is. I can easily edge this boat farther than most I have paddled. I find it easy to maintain this boat on edge with the cockpit coaming completely under water.
Again though, there is no warning once you have gone too far. You just have to know where that is. But given that that point is SOOO far over it is not really a problem.
Also, with a load this boat stiffens up a whole lot and there becomes a noticeable wall without adding so much primary stability taht you can’t still edge it deeply.
With a load on board you can practically get this boat to sit sideways in the water and be perfectly balanced.
I still have it for sale. it was never in the water until last week when a guy and girl wanted to test drive it.
He wanted it, but she didn’t - I think it would have been a “divorce boat” for them.
I never heard back from them so I guess she won the battle!
It is a great boat for racing. We won the first three races we entered in our first one, but we never even have used this new one. - Too busy racing tandem canoes.
We also realized that for off shore paddling, we prefer our two solos to the tandem, just for the safety aspect.
If your 90 year old mother is interested, I’ll give her a “senior discount” !!!
I would love to get rid of it. It is taking up too much space in the boat house where I could put the new “pro boat” that I am lusting for.
Cheers,
JackL
It also has the feature of two water tight compartments
