Fast SOT? Oxymoron?

Plastic + not wide = hard to find

– Last Updated: Oct-13-05 12:58 PM EST –

(Assuming you do not want a surf ski...Futura makes or made a plastic one that might be worth looking at.)

The narrowest non-specialty plastic SOT I can think of is the Ocean Kayak Scupper. 26" beam. Lots of fun to paddle and very stable.

Tarpon 160 is a good choice, too. Even though it's wider (28" beam), it is also longer. I felt it was slower to get going, but once it got up to speed it wasn't hard to keep there. (It should be stated that I am 5'2" and under 110 lbs; a poster named Swedge who owns the 160 has stated he can maintain 6 mph in it, but he is a much larger and more muscular person. What holds true for your wife will probably lie somewhere in between.)

Both the above are still slower than similar-size SINKs.

I can think of two specialty plastic SOTs with narrow beams. I have a 25" or 26" beam Prijon Twister SOT, a discontinued model. Even if you can find one, I don't recommend this kayak as a touring boat. It doesn't like to go straight.

The other specialty model is an Ocean Kayak Kea, which is 24" beam and less than 9' long. It's a child's kayak. Probably too short to keep up with a regular-length SINK.

also Heritage Sea Dart
Check out reviews here and at www.sit-on-topkayaking.com.



Have you considered slowing down? It might be a cheaper solution? I tend to think the motor has a lot to do with the speed of the boat, not sure a faster kayak is the answer.

Cobra Expedition
pretty darn quick. Works for me.

necky dolphin
I keep getting told that I should look at this boat too. What is the issue with it? I know it is discontinued but I wanted to find one to try out before making a final decision because so many people were talking about this being a great boat.



Paul

Kestrel 140 SOT
Current Designs has a Kestrel 140 SOT coming soon.

14ft., 26" wide, less than 40lbs. Made from their TCS thermoformed plastic rather than roto-molded poly. Should be fast. $pendy too.

MUST Be Plastic

– Last Updated: Oct-13-05 1:27 PM EST –

He did say it MUST be plastic, right?

And he did NOT say it had to be light....

He obvisouly wants it to be significantly faster than the necky Dolphin....

That pretty much narrows it down to the Tarpon 16, Cobra Expedition and Eliminator, or Hertiage SeaDart 17

If you wanted to consider composite, that would open up an entirely different can of worms....

current design kestrel
For some reason I thought that was a fiberglass layup so I did not mention it even though it was very high on the list for an SOT if I could afford it.



Probably be a fortune though.



Paul

Had an Aquaterra Prism
at 14ft that was pretty fast. The boat is made under a Perception name now. Why not consider composite? I had a Futura 15ft surfski that was fast, stable and had a rudder. Jun has a Seda Revenge that used to have a rudder. The Tarpon 16 is pretty fast too.

About $1,500, But Not Available Yet
The new CD Kestral SOT will be about $1,500, but last I heard will not be available in shops until late November.



If it really weighs just 36# I might buy one, but not until I heft it for myself. Been burned on manufacturer’s specs before…



I don’t know it it can really be considered “plastic” It will probably need to handled carefully

SOMETHING NEW COMING…
I am the happy owner of a “Hooter Orange” Tarpon 160. It is the best of all worlds…it is fast, stable, and just plain fun!



Have also paddled several of the newer Hobie SOT’s and was impressed with their speed and agility but wished that they had a longer model available. Hobie has a new SOT due out any time that is around 16’ long that should be a rocket. It not only paddles but will also have their unique peddle drive unit plus mounts for a sail mast and leeboards. Can’t wait to give it a try but I wll still keep my T-160!



Nothing beats the Tarpon but you might want to give the Hobie a look over. I think that the yak is shown on their website.

Thanks all!
Thank you for the great info so far! As always, this forum provides great info and support.



Hey Paul, I don’t think there is anything inherently wrong with the Necky Dolphin, but when you compare it to a 17’ SINK, it just can’t keep up. Not that I expect any SOT to do so other than a suf ski. It’s a darn tough boat with a lot of great features, and it’s very forgiving.



TsunamiChuck, the wife dislikes compostite boats, rational or not. I’ve tried to convince her over the years with no success. If she says she only wants plastic–she gets plastic. After all, I am a typical house-broken husband! I don’t believe she would like any surf ski because of the stability issues. Remember, she is not a very agressive paddler and never wants to be.



Thanks for the help, I’ll begin researching.



Paddle well…


I still have a dolphin in my fleet.
Actually, two. Haven’t used them in a couple of years, but both my wife and I don’t want to sell them.



The Dolphin is relatively fast for an SOT. It’s about the same as the Scupper Pro. In fact, that was my other choice when we bought the Dolphins. My wife liked the look of the Dolphin and since it had taken a while to convince her we needed more boats in the fleet, I didn’t want to argue.



The Dolphin has a rather dry ride. Since that means you are sitting higher, the boat is tippier than a lot of other SOT’s.



It surfs pretty well, and is basically a good all around SOT. I rank it equally with the OK Scupper Pro.



Hope this helps.

Stand corrected…
…I went through the CD catalogue I got in the mail a few days ago and it shows the 140 SOT to be of “composite hybrid”. I also went through the website and found a couple of errors on the kayak page (1). Click on "Kestrel 140 SOT and Kestrel 170T. Also, a price list (August '05) listed the composite Kestrel 120 to be $159, with the roto 120 for $649.

The BIC Scapa might be another possibility. About the same dimensions as the K140SOT and at 50lbs. or so, it’s gotta be made of plastic.

I’ll 3rd or 4th the Tarpon. Heavy out
of the water, fast in it.Lots of neat features.

Illusion
My hunny and I both have perception Illusions “sot” and as far as our limited experience goes we find them to be fairly quick boats that are stable, and a pleasure to paddle.

She has stomped folks in various local races using canoes, other recreational kayaks etc…

for what ever it is worth.

Another vote for the cobra expedition…
I had one briefly and plan on getting another. Its fast and light. I don’t know how the other guy thought it was heavy. Weighs in at just 48 lbs, rudder will add a few pounds, but between 70 and 80? I highly doubt it.

I own a Cobra Tourer as well, its more stable but weighs close to 60 lbs with rudder and all the hatches. The Expedition was like a feather in comparison for loading and unloading. Superlight for a plastic 18 footer.

Cobra Ex…
I found it a wet ride that didn’t appreciate chop and turned like an aircraft carrier even with rudder. Made my Tarpon 160 seem nimble (I had no rudder), able to tackle anything, and far more stable doing it.



Just an opinion - but one that echos a lot of others descriptions I’ve heard and read too.

Hurricane Phoenix
We went out to the paddlefest at Adventure Times Kayaks in West Palm Beach and had a chance to try out a bunch of boats. the current Designs Kestrel sito on top was there, along with Ocean Scupper Pro, and the Hurricane Phoenix.

I have to say that my wife’s favorite was the Hurricane Phoenixand looking at all the features, including price, the Phoenix 14 footer is one sweet boat.



Paul

OXYMORON? NOT! INDEED

– Last Updated: Oct-16-05 11:34 PM EST –

EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE!

SOTs are among, if not THE, fastest paddlecraft around. The specialized variety known as skis –surf skis, not wave skis (which –given your handle –I’d think you were familiar with) are the stiletto flyers of the kayaking world.

Your wife’s complaint is the plaintive cry of many an SOTer…They want to go fast enough to keep up in mixed company, but many know, or feel, they can’t, with their present rides...

So they look for, as our good friend redneck_paddler would say, the ‘Wholly Grayle’:

They want a boat that is “still stable” but goes fast enough to keep up in mixed company. They want a boat they can view wildlife, skin dive, and photograph from, and still keep up in mixed company. They want a boat they can beat up on, and beat upon, and still keep up in mixed company…

Sorry, yaksurfer, but for the most part –the MOST part , not ALL parts –the tradeoffs don’t work. If your wife paddles a classic SINK, she obviously DOESN’T mean, or need, 30” wide. That’s VERY good, because 30” of beam will slow ANYBODY down.

There are some roto boats out there that good paddlers can use to successfully keep up in mixed company, when the mixed company is cruising easy. And there a few roto boats thet REALLY good paddlers can use to successfully keep up in mixed company on “serious” cruises.

But for the MOST part? Not really…

Brasilbrazil had a pretty good rundown on the traditional leading ‘tupperware’ contenders, but there’s more, depending on your wife’s definition of, and tolerance of, “composite” boats…

Now IF she doesn’t mind fiberglass, the original “composite" (but not a space-age new materials amalgam that I’d say most of us now conceive of as “composite”) she can open her eyes upon a whole NEW world of SOTs. They’re the South African models now being imported by a few dealers:

The Seda Revenge: California, fiberglass, 16’6” X 25”, 68#, ~$2240

The Kaskazi Pelican: fiberglass, 15’6” X 23-1/2”, 52#, gas-pedal ruddered, ~$1500?

The Kaskazi Dorado: fiberglass, 15’-8” X 25”, 60#, gas-pedal ruddered, ~$1800??

The Kaskazi Skua: fiberglass, 17’3” X 22-1/2”, 55#, gas-pedal ruddered, ~$2000??

OXYMORON SOT NOT! (II)

– Last Updated: Oct-18-05 7:49 PM EST –

The original post first didn't take, and then got truncated, so here's part II:

Here are some pics and reviews of some of these lesser-known fast(er) SOTs…
http://www.ftlauderdaleyakfishingclub.org/superyaks/superyaks.html

The Kaskazis (and a MacSki Kingfisher)
http://www.ftlauderdaleyakfishingclub.org/superyaks2/ultimatesuperyaks.html

The Knysna Isthmus, 17' X 21", ~50#, gas-pedal rudder, ~$1600

No URLS for pics of the I could be added here...

So cut & paste and add a w to the front end of this one to see a half-fast ride on the I:
ww.topkayaker.net/CGI-BIN/yakalbum/cgi-bin/album.pl?photo=Member's%20Kayaks/Frank_in_the_Isthmus_4.jpg;photo_width=-1;photo_height=-1

And do the same to see a much more cempetent one...!

ww.topkayaker.net/CGI-BIN/yakalbum/cgi-bin/album.pl?photo=Member's%20Kayaks/DigiPix2004_0214_160010AA2_S.JPG;photo_width=-1;photo_height=-1

These are all faster SOTs –the Skua and Isthmus are the fastest, and I believe the Isthmus will take a Skua. All will keep up in mixed company MUCH better than 99 44/100ths % of the commonly available plastic roto SOTs out there.

I’m not sure, and Wollyworld notes it’s scarcity, but the Shearwater was a sleek, handsome, fast SOT. In composite. And MAYBE was also produced in glass, but alas. ‘Tis indeed produced no more.

There are a few others out there as well, but I’m not familiar with them I have seen a Pelican, and paddled both the Skua and the Isthmus (we own an “I”). The Isthmus is a tricky, twitchy boat that goes REAL fast –it’ll keep up with and pass longer SINKs because it’s plumb-bow/plumb-stern design gives a LWL of almost 17’ as well a LOA. But it ALSO goes VERY fast, AROUND… …around its longitudinal axis. Greyak & I both swam paddling the I, while Sally did just fine (see the pics, above). The Skua is a fast SOT, and it’s quite stable, MUCH moreso than the Isthmus.


OK., so these boats are fiberglass, and not plastic rotos. And they cost close to every bit as much as their SINK equivalents with hoods and trunk lids.

Of the others –the plastic rotos –here are the ones generally rated fastest:

OK Scupper Pro/TW –14’9” X 26”, ~55-58#, rudder available ~~$650?

OK Prowler 15 – 15’’4-1/2” X 28-1/2”, ~56-60#, rudder available ~~$750?

WS Tarpon 160i –16’ X 28”, 65#, rudder available ~~$850?

Hop-On-Top/Heritage Expedition –Out of production – 17’-4” X 26”, 68# (some available used) $$$???

Heritage Nomad – Out of production – 16’ X 28”, ???# (some available used) $$$???

Heritage Seadart 17 – 17’4” X 26”, 73#, rudder N/A (?) -$850?

Cobra Eliminator – 16’6” X 23”, 42#, semi-gas-pedal rudder available $850?

Cobra Expedition – 18’ X 23-1/2”, 48# (bare), semi-gas-pedal rudder available $1500?

Perception Illusion – 14’3” X 27”, 61# (bare), ~~$850 ?

And finally, the Hobies –which are foot-pushed, not upper body propelled… and if your wife’s got the quads, she sure can keep up in one of these…!

And a few new contenders –the CD Kestrel SOT in hardshell plastic, and the Hurricane Phoenix 14, same material I believe, have recently joined the fray. And the Kestrel is still “:joining”, as it’s now in a public demo limited release stage.

CD Kestrel - 14’ X 26”, 36# -rudder availability & cost unknown

Hurricane Aquasports Phoenix 14 - 14’ X 28“, 52#, rudder available, cost unknown

I run an OK S-Pro TW, and I can keep up with SINKs for a 5-10 mile paddle if they’re moderately cruising, and ONLY moderately. When they speed up, I fall behind. This is the oldest design of the group, and it’s fishform, HV prow and hull design make it exceptionally seaworthy. Overall, it’s probably the slowest of THIS group of SOTs.

The Prowler is marginally faster, but a WHOLE lot more stable. I know folks who fly-fish standing up in these things…

The T-160 is a fast mainline SOT. Greyak did the Bogey, a 13-mile race, in a T-160 and finished mid-pack; talk about keeping up! It, too, is a stable, stand-up fly fisher.

The Heritage Exped, like the Shearwater, is one of those almost legendary sleek fast SOTs that came before their time, and didn’t make enough of a commercial go of it to endure. The Shearwater is not as stable as any of the previous boats.

The Nomad, OTOH, is still around in its Seadart guise, and it’s a pretty quick boat that sort of mimics a SINK in design with its rising sides and swoopy shear.

The Cobra Eliminator is a near-flat yak, fairly extreme in its Swedeform aft-of-cockpit max beam point, akin to a downriver racer; it looks like itr ought to be fast.

The Cobra Exped is the biggest of the bunch, and on nice, smooth, flat, flatwater, is fast. But as Greyak noted above, it NEEDS its rudder, and even with it, still turns like a battleship. And I can also attest to it’s somewhat unstable feeling as well. And it loses something when the water gets choppy –it just isn’t nearly as good a boat. And I wonder about the weight -while listed at 48#, I’m sure it’s a bare hull –with the 4 toggle hatched and the rudder system, I believe there’s another 10 pounds there.

The Illusion is a surprisingly fast boat, and pretty stable at 27”, but heavy at over 60#.

The prototype CD Kestrel SOT in that hardshell plastic is a pretty fast SOT, very light & nimble, easy acceleration. But it’s seat pan is very wide, and an aftermarket SOT-style seat is definitely called for by any but the “broadest of beam” of paddlers, because the rest of us will float in the seat area, LOL!. I don’t think anyone much over 6-2 or 6-3 will fit (your wife is 5-8 so she’ll be OK) because of the foot brace ridges limited range. But it might be worthwhile to check out.

The Hurricane Phoenix 14, the big brother of the 12, same material I believe as the Kestrel but under a different proprietary name, is also a relatively recent model. And the Kestrel. The Phoenix paddles quite easily and quickly, comes with a bow hatch and a shallow, long & wide cross-bungeed stern TW, adjustable foot pegs, and a very nice glass-like look.

The Hobies are the red-headed stepchildren of the SOT world –they’re big, heavy boats, with a tad of tippiness, but they can be pedaled fast! And they also tend to be more expensive than their equivalent paddling machines… about $13-1500?

Once again, the bottom line is that ephemeral cross between “stability” and speed –how fast is fast, and how stable is stable, -at least for your wife?

And will glass be OK if “composites” aren’t? A friend of ours, DonBel, ran an Impex Serenity Sport glass boat for years, doesn’t baby it, and used it for camping and fishing South Florida, where unusually sharp and abrasive coral rock abounds. It was fine (until it got stolen off the roof of his truck!), as is his QCC700. He doesn’t deliberately crash his glass boats into obstacles, but he just takes moderate care, nothing ‘special’, so maybe glass will fit the bill after all….

Sally went through the same thing on a club moonlight paddle last year. After paddling some 4 magical moonlit miles on amazingly smooth and mirror-finished mangrove-lined waterways in Key Largo, we traversed an open fetch on Largo Sound, and crossed the island on the Adams Waterway (just a fancy name for a man-made cut). We then turned for home, and slogged the final mile into an in-your face wind of 15-20, and a 1-1/2 to 2’ chop. We were racking the boats when two women walked by –an older woman (we’re in our mid-50s) and a much younger one, both of whom appeared to not be in as good a shape, or anywhere near as strong as Sally. And the younger one said –‘you know, that wasn’t bad at all…”, and the older replied “Yeah, it was EASY!”

Sally then finally, viscerally, proprioceptively, and not just “intellectually”, KNEW that hulls and boat shapes, and not ONLY paddlers, made a BIIIIG difference.

She runs away from me when she’s on the Isthmus and I’m on the S-Pro, and she’s not even trying. But because she’s not fully comfortable on it, and on it while SHE’S on the waters we have around here, with critters in it, she didn’t want it for her primary ride.

So she now paddles a Hurricane Tracer SINK I surprised her with this past Christmas.

We still use the SOTs from time-to-time, for slower, more leisurely paddles, and for fishing & skin diving.

But in MIXED company? Under THOSE circumstances, we now use our SINKs instead of our SOTs to

PADDLE ON!

-Frank in Miami