I think the Swift Osprey is pretty remarkable in being an efficient cruiser and also a highly maneuverable river and play boat (especially for forward maneuvers). Osprey might be my favorite solo. But I have 3 other 15 footers and in my experience the Osprey does indeed give up speed for maneuverability; it’s not as fast as the (lower rocker) Keewaydin 15 which is not as fast as the (narrower) Merlin II which is not as fast as the narrower Rapidfire. Just a comment, YMMV.
I’m confused.
yes in this river you have to edge the boat till water comes in or else your not making any corners ,skirt is out of the question with a couple of portage
then the suggestion of @eckilson to get a canoe is worthwile, especially if you can do ‘hit and switch’, as a canoe is also relatively more manoeuverable than a kayak when you kneel.
I wasn’t really suggesting that OP switch to a canoe. It was more of a comment that kayak manufacturers haven’t filled the space in their product line between touring boats and whitewater boats with a river runner in the same way that canoe manufacturer have. Or maybe they have, and I just don’t know what it is.
You are probably right, cause the only kayak that comes to my mind in that respect is the Pryon Yukon Expedition. But compared to canoes my knowledge with kayaks is still limited. On the other hand a touring canoe is perhaps just more suited to the role as a river- or whitewater-touring boat 
@paddlemyboat, I make hairpin turn in narrow salt water feeder streams in my 145 Tsunami using an extreme edge. By holding the tip of my 250 cm Kalliste (as if it were a Greenland paddle - and sweep with long strokes around the those tight corners. A backstroke can help, but that chops the speed, so thr question becomes what is more important, speed or maneuverability.
I’m curious what boats the winners are using and how others negotiate those corners. Observe the fine details, even if you have to over exert to stay out front for a few races to hang with the winners. Its just about timing and developing sound technique.
I donintend to get into a hull speed dissertation, but if you can sustain 9 km (5.59 mph) for 30 minutes on straight runs in a 14 ft by 24 inch wide boat, you’ll be hitting a hard bow wave arounf 5.8 mph. You probably have the power, or at least the potential to condition yourself, to add .4 mph by switching to a 16 ft boat. I can think of a few 16 to 17 ft boats that will out turn a 145 Tsunami, but unsure if they would out turn your Dagger. Do some homework, and I think you have the potential as a winner.
(Humour) River races ??? What a good way to spoil a nice paddle. I favour canoes, both for carry capacity and long water line. I have some expertise in canoes, and before that 20 plus years of quietly studying marine engineering as to power and sailboats. (A real nerd. Porn on the porcelain throne was always marine engineering books.)
in general. Speed is dependent upon water line length. Rocker aids in turning. Asymmetrical can affect efficiency. And then into the topic of bottom of hull shape, round, flat, chines, It’ll get you nuts.
In general, there is zero one size fits all, everything trades one thing against another, speed, efficiency, turning radius, load capacity, all up to you the best blend. I am with, I think it was Jyak, do your best research and then test drive the boats.
Use a rudder, stern mounted as far behind the vessel as practical, kick up type , and place stops so you cannot move it all the way to 90 degrees… ALL boats turn about their centers. Does not matter Great Lakes freighter, or bath tub Pelican two piece. Skegs can be nice on windy days, and partial up or down, skeg leaning a bit fore or aft, all have an effect.
Turning the boat by leaning it… Learn it. You stay upright and centered, but heel the boat toward the outside of the corner. Its kinda counter intuitive, every thing else we learn to lean over, we lean toward the inside of the curve, Boats are backwards. IF you lean to the inside of the corner, the boat ain’t gonna turn. One of the other commenters describes it perfectly, especially if you have rocker. The curve from front to back along the side will greatly aid the turn, whilst the tilted bottom is straighter and the tilt also increases effective rocker, greatly.
I travel long distances and my favoured boat (rather beat to crap now, new patches are beginning to over lap old patches) A 20 foot expedition canoe with 3 inches of rocker, specifically built for white water. I love white water. And I can make that 20 feet turn and jink left and right, to hopefully miss the rocks, usually. If you spend 6 weeks out, you need to be able to carry a serious quantity of supplies, and lotsa paperback books, and coffee, and Grand Marinier, and Kahlua, I don’t travel light. And bragging about 215 pounds, Laughing, I have you by 100 pounds, I NEED the 20 footer.
It is all compromises. No one boat will be the perfect boat for every one, only you.
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One thing I’ve not had the chance to test is whether a wide boat turns better on edge than a narrow boat. There are so many variables that influence the results, such as rocker. My logic is the wide boat creates a greater radius for the water to influence the turn.
Most any boat can turn easily with edging and paddle technique. The question is how much the boat has to slow to make the turn, and how quickly it accelerates. The lighter the boat, the higher it floats and the less displacement/wetted surface. The higher it rides above the designed load water line, the more effective the turning radius should be. The longer the boat, the higher the speed “potential”, but if you can only push a 14 ft boat to 3.5 mph, you don’t have the power to push a 17 ft boat any faster than 3.5 mph, but if you can push a 14 ft boat to a sustained 5.7 mph, you’ll easily hit 6.1 mph or more in the 17 ft boat.
All the formulas are great to occupy your mind at midnight, but on race day. You’ll see what adds to success. If nobody is in front of you, not many paddlers can help answer you’re questions . . . You’re in a class by yourself. People will have to turn to you for help.
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I may be able to answer one of your questions. Wide will likely turn in a shorter distance. I will refer you to Youtube do your search with ‘Canoe Ballet’ the guy from 2007 , and a couple of other videos.
I paddle a 20 footer 42 inch beam, shallow arch bottom (transverse shape) and 3 inches of rocker. Canoes in particular, can be set way over to one side or the other (the guy in the video) This is a technique learned for crossing a windy lake, to keep the wind out of the inside of a canoe. Canoes get blown sideways because of positive and negative pressure on the outside of the hull, and perhaps more so the positive and negative pressures on the insides of the open canoe. Kayakers know this intimately, and canoes with full splash decks note the improved aerodynamics also. For an open canoe cross wind on a lake, sit to one side, press the gunnel to just a couple of inches of free board, and the wind mostly passes over the rounded side and bottom of the canoe. It also can turn on a dime.
In white water, lotsa rocks, (Oh, I mean sometimes, LOTSA rocks) I shift my knees hard one side or the other to stand the canoe up on a cheek. Effective rocker at that moment may be 10 or 12 inches, AND I tip it left or right to fit a 42 inch wide boat through the 24 inch space between two closely set rocks. I do it all the time…
I was paddling on a river the other day, no load in the boat, I was doing my usual paddle down to town, stop for a beer and a burger and paddle back upstream. My bow ballast was my 87 y.o. mother and her little dog. Nice little family outing. The river is NOT 20 feet wide, and several turns much tighter than 90 degrees. I edge it without thinking. Even the little (with a passenger) on that day and river helps greatly in the tight spaces. I have watched white water kayakers and their lttle short duck tail boats edge over for a quick turn into an eddy.
So, in answer to your question, edge it over strongly and you have effectively increased the rocker to a substantial percentage of the bow to stern gunnel radius. Not only does the shape help the turn, it does, but the increased rocker can allow the boat to turn a much tighter radius. Do it to the ultimate, you can turn a canoe 90 or 180 nearly in its own length. You will also be at a near dead halt (loss of forward momentum and vastly temporary shorter water line.
A wider boat can turn better on edge than a narrower boat.
A side note. Kayaks are faster than canoes, You know that already. My fully loaded canoe, with bow woman, carry drinking water for 12 days in Utah 100 to 115 heat, food ,fuel, spares, my fat butt, 20 foot 105 pound boat, etc., etc. Total weight about 1400 pounds? (Hey, I even took the steel camp chair.) Max speed ever over the water was a blistering 4.2 mph. With the current, (I am a big believer in going downhill) perhaps 7mph? But that is also why a voyager canoe may have 6 paddlers. (Voyager canoes are 21 feet and 48 inches wide.) vs my fat happy butt bending a single paddle in the stern. Isn’t that appropriate that I use a Bending Branches wooden paddle. 'Cause yes, I bend it.
My compliments to you by the way. There are many commenters here, and several display a real understanding of boats. You are one of them. I cheat, I studied marine engineering ad nauseam learning about sailboats. Then 60 years of paddling. Those long trips, yeah, you have lots and lots of time to think quietly, experiment, experience. And then read in a forum like this and sit at the knee of some truly knowledgeable people, and read, listen, learn. I have become a sponge, an amalgam of all these people and years.
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You mentioned a point that I overlooked. The shape of the kayak or canoe can act to create rocker. Too often we look for answers. When we are best served by observing.
I switched from canoes to kayaks because I felt they wee more seaworthy and faster, but some imput from avid canoers has me challenging much of what I thought as true. Rather than viewing them as separate disciplines, I’m more inclined to view each type of hand powered boat as a paddle boat designed with a different purpose. Look at a Mad River Adventure 16 and consider how it comes close to a Pamlico tandem, and how closely that resembles a Pungo, which is nearly as fast as a Tsunami, and the 175 Tsunami is just as stable as the Pungo, but almost as fast as the Tempest. There are some fairly fast canoes.
@paddler236278 the last post was meant to reply to your post.
Instead I inintentionally sent it to @PaddleLite responding about the thermofoil boats, which are about 10 lbs lighter for less didplacement, and possibly up to one or two inches narrower that many of the rotomolded boats, which might make them easier to get up to speed after a turn. I might pay to look at the profile the hull form and chine. Then start testing boats with similar festures.
Venture (the moderate-priced line of British high end kayak maker P & H) has come out with this new model, the Islay 14 SOT, a 14’ x 29" sit on top with skeg or optional “skudder” (a rudder-skeg hybrid) that can also be sailed. Here’s a link to a video which shows it on the water at the end.
I’ve had a Venture kayak (the Easky 15LV) for 13 years and they are really well designed and nicely made kayaks with great features, still manufactured in England. This looks like a very interesting boat – max capacity 300 pounds.
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To summarize, you need a boat faster than a Dagger Alchemy, but more maneuverable than a WS Tsunami 14. You cannot use a spray skirt because of entry and exit time cost at the portages, so properly edging the Tsunami (or any boat) is not an option.
The solution that comes to mind is an Epic V5 14 foot sit on top. You can put thigh straps on it and edge as hard as your skills will allow. You will also pick up a few seconds at each portage relative to a sit inside.
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