Learn to roll a SOT
For years I paddled only inflatable and SOT kayaks because the fear of being “trapped” in a SINK prevented me from even trying. The catch was that I needed to learn to roll up before I would be able to sit in a decked boat with the skirt on without being unreasonably fearful about tipping over. The solution for me was to learn to roll in my sit-on-top first. There’s no feeling of entrapment with the SOT, and I was able to practice rolling without assistance because a blown roll attempt simply meant falling off, climbing back on, and trying again—no “wet exit”, no complicated re-entry or pumping out a swamped SINK. Because rolling the SOT is more difficult than rolling a SINK, by the time I was confident enough in my SOT roll to comfortably try out a SINK, rolling the SINK seemed very easy. And because I already had a roll before starting in the SINK, I was able to quickly progress to learning other skills like bracing and assisted recoveries.
I am reluctant as well
I don’t know your paddling conditions. I have been paddling the waters around the the florida keys every week end for about a year now and usually in good conditions (wind under 15 MPH ) AND I DO NOT WORRY ABOUT ROLLING OR WET EXIT PRACTICE. Wet exits and self rescues are easy anyway and do not require repeated practice. IF YOU CAN PADDLE in benevolent conditions, then don’t worry about it.
I went out one spring day and did the wet exit self rescue execise in calm ocean waters over and over. it is not a big challenge. Anyone in reasonable shape can do it. However, like you, I did not enjoy it. It was boring and I see no good reason to tip myself from a perfectly good boat when I could be paddling. The ocean has done that to me once anyway. I got an adrelenalin rush and climbed back in my 21" beam kayak and paddled away.
I enjoy riding the swells and chop and that is what I spend all my time doing. To hell with rolling when I am no more than a 20 minute swim to shore with an onshore wind if any. Some of the people here like to paddle in rough conditions miles from shore…perhaps even alone. They will need to know how to roll. You don’t sound like one of those paddlers.
very good post, Peter
I think that was an excellent bit of advice.
Sorry but that is dangerous advice!
While solo paddling losing hold of your boat in a 20 knot wind can result in death by hypothermia or drowning. Are your weather reports that good?
I do not practice for easy conditions, I practice to survive bad ones. I know you do not believe in practice and techniques but a controlled wet exit is a must for a paddler who cannot swim out and leave their boat behind withour hesitation.
If you do not control your boat and paddle during a wet exit, it is not a controlled wet exit; it is a panicked courting of disaster.
Jim I dont want to have a big argument, but a controlled wet exit is a lifesaving technique. I cannot let the above post stand without warning.
you are not reading what I wrote
I paddle in less than 20 mph onshore winds near shore. I am in south florida, no hypothermia here. In fact, falling into the water could prevent hypERthermia here.
I also advised paddling in benevolent conditions if no roll is learned. This is what I do. The one time I was dumped, the water was near 88 degrees with an onshore breeze and I was only about 50 yards form the beach.
I advised the lady to paddle in benevolent conditions and not to worry about rolls or wet exits if it was going to mess up her paddling.
I assume she swims and wears a PFD.
The best and most basic safety technique is employing common sense in deciding when paddling conditions are safe for your level of skills.
and besides…
I just realized I said the same thing JackL said above. Why did you not answer his post in the same manner?
Question:
Do you think paddling a SINK and rolling os for everyone?
I agree that dx-treme’a response may have been a bit extreme - but it also could have been right on.
Fears are very personal - and ones like this not entirely rational (beyond self preservation). We have no wat to know if this is a “tough it out” type situation, a case for giving it more time, or if it’s a “move on” deal. Given that - the respopnse was no better or worse than any other here. It was in the interest of safety as much as any of the others.
Maybe because
JackL kept it simple, suggesting I think more of a balance where enjoyment is more predominant and makes it worth working on the fears/sticking points as able - not skipping this entirely. More to the point JackL was responding to a poster who WANTS to work on these skill and feels it is important.
Some of us feel a need to counter your posts because you DO NOT feel them important skills.
Not needing to do them every trip is one thing - but doing them once and never again assuming you’ll be fine? With that attitude you should expect the Ocean to provide some nasty surprises. Your ignoring the dangers under the placid surface only draws them closer to you. Neptune delights bringing trouble to fools who venture into his domain unprepared.
Do what you want - but to advise others who are interested in being safer paddlers to just skip it IS dangerous and Peter is right to call you out on it.
Much like you, that first day of a few wet exits and re-entries showed me it was easy too. Doing them in 2-4 ft and 15 kts completely unplanned showed me a lot more.
Hey, I spend most of my time just paddling too - and in mostly the benign conditions you describe - but every time I practice these things I lean more. The most important one being you CAN NOT assume it will always be as easy or work the same as the last time you did it. Maybe more important - when you need them - you will most likely be tired and in conditions at the upper end of your comfort zone.
Have you practiced AFTER a long paddle? In waves/chop/wakes of ANY sort? This stuff should be practiced with an eye toward dealing the worst scenarios you’re likely to encounter (working up to it) - not just bobbing in the usually the bathtub like waters off FBO.
Sculling?
What about learning to scull and gradually working toward a Greenland style sculling brace and an eventual sculling “half roll” with the goal of creating a sense of control…might help overcome your fear.
wrong again
I have a wonderful time paddling around. I have a healthy respect for the dangers of the sea and I am careful.I watch the weather and I stay within a safe distance from the shore. Under these conditions, I don’t need a roll and as I said, the wet exits and self rescues are not that difficult…just a matter of keeping a cool head and slow, deliberate movements.
Why some of you try to make this stuff sound so hard is beyond me. It is one thing to point out some safety information, it’s quite another to scare people away from this sport by telling them they have to learn a roll and self rescue in 7 foot seas with high winds or they better sell their kayak. Ask yourself which is a more dangerous situation, driving your car on I95 or paddling your yak on a mangove creek in fair weather.
There are as many ways to enjoy this as there are people and kayaks. Good for you if you found your way. But not every one has to paddle that way. I have put in nearly a year of week ends paddling my way and I do it safely without a roll.
The poster here has a normal and natural aversion to going upside down in the water. Help her with some advice but don’t forget to point out it is not a requirement. Sounds to me like she has a good head on her shoulders and would not take uneccessary risks anyway.
Sorry Robin, but
for what I am able to understand, your problem is not kayaking but to be underwater. Therefore, you should first address that problem, and then, try to roll, wet exit...
Kayaking is a sport in/on the water.
Sooner or later, you will have to do "at least a wet exit" if you want to paddle on...
Take swimming classes, etc...,but address your fear problem.
Regards,
Iceman
fair enough! I will admit
I am very sensitive to your recurently saying that technique is not important. Although if Robin takes your and Jack L's advice the actions she might take for the inital few weeks could be similar, Jack's post is talking a lot about practicing what she can and yours is talking about not practicing. The flavor is different.
NO matter how good our forecasting is, given enough time, sea kayakers will eventually be out in conditions we did not anticipate being out in on that day. When that happens, decision making, technique, clarity, focus, and strength (of many types) matter.
The lady wants to learn to roll, she wants to be an accomplished paddler on lakes and slow rivers at least. To be honest if she wears immersion gear a controlled wet exit is much less important to her than it is to somone who aspires to being and accomplished sea kayaker but being without a paddle in the middle of a gorge with a day ahead of you is probably no fun. For an aspiring sea kayaker, lack of a controlled wet exit, drilled time and time again, is a huge closed door to a host of future possibilities. I'm trying to advise folks to keep it open if they can.
Thank you so much
for all the wonderful advice. I do know how to swim, but it has been years since I spent time "playing" in the water. I think I'll start by going to my neighbors pool and practice sitting on the bottom. I need to get comfortable being under water again. I tried swim goggles at my second class, but they just made me feel clostrophobic, so I slung them back on shore. I plan to invest in a dive mask. SCUBA lessons are available here, but I live on Lake Hartwell. Visibility is poor to say the least, and that just leaves me feeling more clostrophobic. So, I'll get used to the mask in the pool. Then I'll take my boat to the lake (the neighbor won't let me put the boat in her pool even if I scrub it with clorox first). I'll treat it like a pool toy as was suggested and see what happens.
Again, thanks for the advice. I'll let you know how it goes.
Robin
Hard?
I have no doubt you enjoy your paddling Jim. So does everyone else. I really don’t see what that obvious statement has to do with anything.
No one is trying to make any of this seem harder than it it. We are simply recognizing it can be MUCH harder for some than others. Reasons can be mental, physical, and often both. We are not all the same. We are certainly not all like you.
Just because you don’t feel you need to practice is a TERRIBLE reason to suggest someone else not try to learn/improve their own abilities.
YOU are right that YOU don’t ever need to learn a roll, and probably don’t need much rescue practice to do what you do in reasonable safety. But that ONLY applies to you. This is the problem I have with all your posts.
Fact is you’re not bored by practice, you’re too scared of the water yourself to be inverted enough to practice wet exits and recoveries regularly, let alone work on a roll. Don’t take that totally the wrong way (not some “elitist” dig). You certainly have your reasons - and are of course free to do as you please with your leisure time.
You made yourself do some practice ONE day (after some serious prodding from a concerned paddler who shall remain nameless) which was great. Very good first step. Only you lose out if it’s your last.
Given your own fears I would think you, more than most, would understand the plight of the original poster and congratulate the interest in, and effort required, getting past those fears.
If you can’t get past your own fears, please don’t try to hold others back there with you by pushing your self-limited and self-delusional views that anything more is of no use. Some want more than you’re willing to settle for and are quite capable of getting it.
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I had the same fear…
It gets better with water time, good instuctors and warm water for practice. The more calm, warm water practice you can get, with safe, encouraging people nearby to help, the better it will get. I would advise you to keep taking classes until you start feeling more confident. That self-imposed water time helped me.
Pool roll classes helped me, more than wet-exit practice, because you are in a very protected setting and you are getting the feel for how it feels to be upside down in the water, wearing your boat:) I actually just took my first pool sessions this spring and my personal goal was to get comfortable giving myself a moment to “hang” upside down, and to get oriented to “where” I was, and not to panic. I have also practiced holding my breath underwater. Ditto on the advice to use a mask. Last week I went to a nearby lake, and learned how to do a paddle float assisted reentry.
For me it has nothing to do with fear of the water or swimming. I was an avid swimmer, both in the pool and in in the ocean as a kid. It has to do with fear of entrapment/getting stuck in a boat (I can get claustrophic. Not usually a problem, but having an MRI triggered it, and the thought of being upside down in the water, made me afraid it would be triggered)Hypnosis and relaxation techniques can help. I just give myself instructions to breathe and relax before doing anything and it helps. reminding myself that I used to swim in water, similar to the water I now kayak in, actualy helps me.
I finally fell out of a boat,paddling with friends, not in a class, a few weeks ago, during a surf landing. I misjudged the sets coming in, and got knocked over by a wave. I just relaxed and leaned into the wave, and fell out easy as pie! It was a huge relief and I had a blast paddling the rest of the day. I guess I should think about bracing next time:)
Some of us are sometimes
curmudgeonly, but we all want to see you and each other succeed at paddling and having as much fun on the water as you can.
Good paddling (and capsizing) to you!
Thinking more about you
and I realized that you are as near to an emergency take out as you are to the shore. things are different here and so thisgivs NE paddlers more exposure sometimes.
Again this accounts for some of your stance and fits it well. I should have thought of it earlier.
For what it’s worth
I don’t like flipping over either – I’m perfectly fine while under water. As a matter of fact in the various classes I’ve taken, I’m usually the crash test dummy for demonstrating different resucue techniques, the roll excluded.
A mask makes it much more pleasant underwater, but I still have some initial resistance to actually making myself roll over. Mostly because I’m usually practicing trying to roll by myself and it means a couple attempts at rolling, followed by a wet-exit, then a swim to shore, dump the boat and start all over again. I’d much rather just paddle around and enjoy myself.
I think the take a swim first is excellent advice as well as have someone there that can assist you getting upright so you don’t have to wet exit and go through all the subsequent hassle. Both would go a long ways to making you more comfortable.
Also thanks to the advice on trying to roll the SOT. While it will be harder to roll, the time savings of not having to go through the whole routine seems excellent to me. And I’m sure my roll will be the better for it. Right now, I go out and make about five or six attempts and call it a day. The SOT should atleast double that number of tries for me.
Ramble mode off. Best of Luck Robin and thanks for the advice from the rest of you.
Slim
Rolling by yourself
"Mostly because I’m usually practicing trying to roll by myself and it means a couple attempts at rolling, followed by a wet-exit, then a swim to shore, dump the boat and start all over again." There are several solutions to this. The nice, but more difficult, solution is to learn to scull up. It is easier to learn and more reliable than the roll and can serve as a backup to a roll. Easier is to dog paddle the boat to a dock or similar object and hip snap up. If you are using a sea kayak, attach the paddle float and do a reenter and roll. You will still need to pump but that is better than swimming to shore and dumping.
Try…
Having a friend or relative be in the water very nearby.
Also try counting to five while upside down before you start the exit. A little time to relax and get accustomed.
You can do it!