Andrew…
Thanks for sharing your perspective. I especially agree with the part about not wanting to be a load on paddling companions. Hate to think someone might get themselves in trouble trying to help me.
Also liked what Angstrom said about it being neat to have that link with kayaking history, traditions, etc.
I will keep working on it.
Donna
speaking of tradition…
– Last Updated: Jul-10-04 9:59 PM EST –
http://www.qajaqusa.org/Movies/movies.html
Check the clips at the bottom of the page. Neat stuff.
I've heard these dismissed as "trick rolls", but think about why they were developed. In 30-degree water, if you couldn't roll up, you died. So the Inuit learned to roll in evey possible situation, so that even if you got tangled in your harpoon line and dropped your paddle you'd still be able to get yourself upright.
Depends
on what you consider to be good paddling conditions. For some folks, it’s whitecaps, surf, waves, currents, & eddies…
I agree that in perfect(calm) conditions you don’t need a roll. Heck, in those conditions you don’t need anything but a boat and paddle. But conditions change, accidents happen, and the more tools you have in your gear/skills toolbox the better off you are.
I’d be nervous about going on a trip with someone who said they’d never capsized. It’d be like flying with a pilot who had never practiced stalls.
uh…
…everyone knows I was joking, right?
Fear of "wet exit"
Robin,
I almost did not go into kayaking simply because I thought that I had to do an “eskimo roll”…
So, I gave it a lot of thought. At times, I almost gave up the idea of kayaking because of my fear of learning to do an eskimo roll…
So, the first thing I did was to take kayak lessons in order to see where I was heading with this fear.
I’ll try to keep this letter short, or I’ll go on and on, and I don’t want to bore you.
During my kayking lessons, I had to wear a “skirt”.
When I would wet exit, I’d flip, then reach for the pull cord on the skirt, then gently rise to the surface.
BUT, the worst part is trying to find the “pull cord” when submerged. So, I devised a system to make it easy to find the pull cord.
I drilled into a golf ball, then stringed it to the pull cord, thus a “blind person” would even have no problem
finding it.
BUT, when I go kayaking I don’t even wear a spray skirt, so that if I should capsize, I’d simply pop out of the cockpit when submerged.
Of course you’d need a spray skirt if you endeavor to paddle “rough waters”, which I simply do not.
I paddle “quiet waters”, therefore, I’ve never had any need for a spray skirt. AND, I usually paddle alone, so I always stay very close to land. I paddle perpendicular to the coast line.
I’ve paddle many many areas by myself most of the time, and love it all the time.
So, I don’t need to know how to do a “eskimo roll”, as long as I don’t do whitewater, and as long as I don’t paddle in the winter or when the water temperature prohibits me.
There are those who will disagree with my system, but it has worked for me, and I’m very cautious, I’m 72 years old and plan on kayaking for a long long time.
Again, as long as you paddle “quiet waters”, and don’t do “whitewater”, or freezing water temperatures, there’s no need to learn an eskimo roll,
As for wet exits, they’re really a lot of fun. But, in all the years that I’ve been paddling, I’ve never capsized and had to do one, with the exception of doing tons of them during my kaykings lessons which proved invaluable to me.
Now, I only paddle two weeks up at Cape Cod in the summer. In a few weeks, I’ll be paddling the bays, creeks, with no spray skirt on. And always quite close to the shore line, having a ton of fun.
Good luck with your son kayaking.
Happy paddling…
“ipadil”
try this again
– Last Updated: Jul-10-04 1:30 AM EST –
I made the mistake of proposing an example of how people communicate differently and used the term "you". I apologize as I didn't mean you didn't know s--t from shinola but that untill everyone gets in the water it's quite possible for folks to mis-represent their capabilities or fears. I've seen enough people who took classes and overcame significant fears in settings that are not scary at all. When I see someone willing to talk about something or take classes they're willing to overcome a fear,,not give up.
adrenaline rush of flipping
I’m a new kayaker as well and have taken several lessons. I don’t have a problem flipping the boat, but definitely need practice with the wet exit. The first time I did it I felt a rush of panic. I have no idea if I did the proper steps to exit, all I knew was that I really didn’t like being upside down underwater in my boat. I also always get salt water up my nose - ick.
Most of my apprehension will be addressed with practice - knowing that I’m ok and can easily get out and surface.
I spoke with my second instructor about it. He gave me some great advice. He’s been paddling for years and said that no matter your experience, everyone feels a rush of adrenaline when they flip. Many beginners just don’t know how to handle that adrenaline. His advice was to stop. Don’t react for a few seconds. Just stay upside down in position and be calm for a moment. This confirms that you are in control.
The constant confirmation that you are in control through the entire process is essential. I still don’t have the full proper technique of the exit down, but I’m going to practice until I get it. And yes, each time I’ve done it I am nervous. I actually like the flipping, I just dont like that adrenaline rush moment of being upside down.
Practice and patience will pay off.
Wet exit/panik
I have just a dive-mask, when i have don the trainig, it makes you abel to see wats going on.
When you are comftable and fell that you are in control, then remove the mask and try agin. I do this every time i practis rolling, 3 rolls whit mask and then many whit out.
It help to control panik if you tilt the kayak and then stay in it aslong as you got air for,that make you juse to the upside down feeling, and ofcourse no spraydeck in this exercise :-).
Actually, It Was Pretty Amusing…
I know you were joking but then I had this brief vision of myself down in the basement, hanging upside down in my boat, between sawhorses, rehearsing some of the moves I can’t seem to get quite right. Bang! I slam onto the concrete floor with an unexpected dry exit… My shoulder is dislocated… I am screaming to no avail… “Help! I’ve fallen and can’t get up! HELP!!!”
sing
Got That Right!
– Last Updated: Jul-10-04 6:24 AM EST –
"I spoke with my second instructor about it. He gave me some great advice. He's been paddling for years and said that no matter your experience, everyone feels a rush of adrenaline when they flip. Many beginners just don't know how to handle that adrenaline. His advice was to stop. Don't react for a few seconds. Just stay upside down in position and be calm for a moment. This confirms that you are in control."
In an unfamiliar and potentially dangerous situation, the body sends an immediate rush of adrenaline into the system. Folks who aren't used to this can get overwhelmed. Supposedly, our survival instinct wired us to "fight or flight." But some unfamiliar situations, it's really "Fight, Flight or Freeze." It is the latter than will most likely kill you. The way to defeat is to practice, practice, practice until the response is ingrained in body memory. When the practice is escalated with increasing amounts of difficulty, it is not only a matter of continous improvement of skill and body memory but also of acclimating to the effects of adrenalization. If you don't freeze, adrenalization has the ability to increase strength and speed as well as provide perceptual acuity because time seemingly "slows down."
This why one should practice even when a maneuver seems "easy" and practice in increasingly more challenging conditions. Usually in practice, except with a brand new skill, adrenalization is not happening or happening very minimally. When something really happens while you are out there and not expecting it, you will adrenalized very quickly. You may well end up freezing in response. The other thing that happens with adrenalization is that fine motor skills decreased in favor of gross motor skills. That's accounts possibily for why grabbing onto the deck lines and coaming to get back onto the boat, as well reattaching the skirt becomes more difficult. You couple this with cold water and you have the ingredients for a disaster. Practice therefore is not just about ingraining the skills but dealing with escalating levels of adrenalization. This last piece is what eludes the understanding of "training" for some folks. These are the folks who can get themselves killed in a dangerous situation if not get you killed in trying to assist them.
sing
all very true, except
that some people actually like the adrenalin rush…it’s like a drug. That;s whay a lot of folks go on amusement rides or jumo out of planes with a chute.
I get a little adrenalin “bump” everytime some big fish thrashes in the water next to me, or I glide over a large manatee or some really rough chop and current threatens to dump me. So far, I only fell out of the kayak once unintentionally. It got myheart pounding, and I instinctually grabbed the coaming and held the boat. I guess practise might insure I do the same next time.
Most Adrrenaline Addicts
– Last Updated: Jul-10-04 4:24 PM EST –
like the rush not simply because of the feeling of being pumped but also being able to train the body to react appropriately to adrenalization. When the body is trained, the rush is not seen as fear -- as most untrained folks feel it -- but as a heighted state where awareness and action occur simultaneously. This is what connects "extreme sports" folks, e.g. white water kayakers, surf yakkers, downhill skiers, rock climbers, mountain bikers, martial arts competitors and such. I would also say there is a qualitative difference of these types of anerobic, reflex, coordination, strength and speed focused athletes from those who are more endurance/aerobically focused. The latter more often talk about the "flow" whereas the former talk about being "pumped" or "stoked."
sing
PS. There are big differences between the folks going on an amusement ride and those athletes who train purposely and consciously. The first gets a rush but anticipate being kept safe by those who control the ride or situation for them. They don't act are passive receivers. The athletes train themselves and set their own situations in which to test their training and escalate to be or near or at the "edge" of their skills. I personally would not count on passive receivers (from my own experiences with such folks) to be able to do much in an adrenalized situation where they may be actually be required to act. The latter group, the trained athletes, will be more able to handle the situation. If nothing else, the latter group won't freeze.
stupid response
I totally agree!! It’s posts like these that turn people off of this site at times!!! If you can’t be helpful, then DON"T respond!!!
dx, before you rant…
EXACTLY!! Very well said
this was in response to darkwolf’s state
my previous posting
Give it up LeeG
dx-treme may be a top-notch kayaker (or not). But he doesn’t have a clue as to how to communicate.
When the original poster, who’s an accomplished swimmer, said she’s afraid of “flipping but do fine once in the water”, dx-treme made all sort of statement as she being a liability because she may panic “underwater”. That’s as far as one can stretch the meaning of “mis-understanding”.
And when you pointed out (what you thought) were difference in style of communication, he mistook your example as an attack to his kayaking ability.
There’s no benefit to have a one way conversation, when the other side doesn’t even have a clue of what the hell you’re talking about. Forget it. Let him preach the safety of staying on land as he wish. You can offer the encouragement to the original poster directly on the main thread.
OT: Hej Propel!
– Last Updated: Jul-10-04 8:24 PM EST –
I am just back from a trip to Denmark. The North Sea in storms was very impressive.
The wind was way too strong on the westcoast for paddling we hoped to do there, foilded by bad weather, but we did see some paddlers near Købnhaven and the Middleages Museum at NyKøbing, in fact the launching of the Catapult had to be held up for five unsuspecting kayakers who paddled into the line of fire.
Relaxing
One thing that many folks don’t realize is how relaxing it can be to put yourself in a high-stress situation. In my downhill skiing days, I used to like making one or two runs near the limits of my ability becasue of the way it cleared the day-to-day trivia out of my head. On a good black diamond I wasn’t thinking about the rent, or the tranmission noise in my car, or what to have for lunch – the only thing in the world that mattered was making the next turn cleanly, because screwing up would be very painful. That kind of focus is rare and can be very refreshing.
LeeG …
please dont take anything personally. Please accept my sincere apology if i have mistaken your comments and intentions. I just do not think any preknowledge judgment (??) and personal attack/flames is neccessary. Also please do not assume that just by having a diff radical nick name automatically means someone is a 21 yr old mountain dew Xtreme Rodeo flippin paddler.
I am quite tired of this discussion anyway as all points are moot now. What i cant get is how some posters are so self righteousness and arrogant.
Diff people have diff opinion, you dont have to agree with anybody but please do tend to respect others as you demanded respect from others. At least you dont see me going around flaming, belittling other posters even though i think their advice and IQ are as gold as babbling garbage.
If original paddler wants to spend 5-6 hours or a weekend feeling frightful, tense and stessful on a kayak then by all mean go ahead and ENJOY it. It doesnt help to know that she doesnt think doing rescue practices are of any value at all. After all the main goal of kayaking and being a good paddler is to keep the boat upright at ALL TIMES.
Be Safe & Happy paddling
Somewhere in the midst of this
– Last Updated: Jul-12-04 2:15 AM EST –
Qrtrhorse mentioned a friend who had The Fear.
C'est moi.
Background is yes, I used to know how to swim pretty well, and even used to dive off the edge of the pool--as a child. Sometime between the age of 12 and 15, I lost that skill, and gained a fear of being underwater. Don't know why. (Part of it is extreme nearsigtedness, corrected only with glasses or contacts.)
I also had two kayaking experiences which thoroughly knocked out my confidence in practicing my skills in rescue and rough conditions--because I thought I was inconveniencing other people, and felt I was an idiot compared to the others I was with.
The following ideas have been covered by others--but here is the perspective of a fellow chicken heart.
1. Take the swimming classes. I found I swim much better than I thought, but I want greater confidence underwater--I'm going to try to fit in some more classes this summer.
2. I'd recommend some goggles or a mask, especially if you wear contacts. You may feel better once you can see what's under there.
3. Get a copy 'Ragged Mountain Press Woman's Guide to Sea Kayaking' by Shelley Johnson. Excellent approach to feeling more confident to all aspects of handling a boat, feeling comfortable, confident and balanced--and falling out and getting back in. (Yes, Q, I'm reading!)
4. Practice rescue with friends who have confidence in you. Do it in easy conditions to start with--you can work up to the harder levels.
Now, if you are thoroughly petrified, you should take swimming classes before getting back in the boat--but you don't sound like that.
It seems you just have this instinct not to fall out of the boat. I do the same. I have yet to naturally fall out (knock on boat)--but when practicing to tip myself over--the hips just refuse to let me be unbalanced. Like a damn stegasaurus, my lower half seems to have a mind of it's own. Qtrhorse has to come over and dump me. (Hey, it keep her amused.)
Then we laugh our butts off, annoy the teacher, and we complete the rescue drill.
However, next time we go out
(hopefully before the Tahoe trip), I am going to walk into the water and get wet first. Stick my head underwater. When I get into the yak, we are going to try going backwards through the Cowboy rescue, and see if that doesn't plop me in the water. Learn to fall and see if it can't become fun again.
4. Be honest with people about your skills and concerns--but don't give up on being a kayaker.
You will find a lot of people quite eager to help, and guide you through. SOME people are quite adamant about not letting you quit the sport!
Being afraid does not make you a bad kayaker. Not wanting to fall in the water does not make you a bad kayaker.
If you were petrified in the middle of rescue, and the muscles and mind refused to respond, that would be a problem.
But just an instinctive resistance to falling and going under--that does not make you a bad kayaker, nor are you forever barred from the sport.
Fear does not make a bad kayaker (or sportsman). Panic does--but so does overenthusiasm or carelessness.
Have fun. Tip over. Get wet and enjoy the view.
La Foole