Those funny places in a baby’s head.
And Jack uses his boats a lot.
Question Jackl…
I assume all of your boats are Kevlar. Any reason you can see to go with Kevlar/Carbon or will Kevlar alone do the trick?
No, I have boats made of just about
every material out there except this new poly- whatever
I have a K-2 that is carbon kevlar and a J-190 canoe that is also.
I am no expert, but from my standpoint the kevlar boats that I have are much stronger than the carbon kevlar.
Also the carbon kevlar are lighter than the straight kevlar.
Many racers want the carbon kevlar because of their lightness.
When we bought our first QCC’s, Phil asked what their use would be, and when we told him both racing and recreational, he recommended the kevlar. He said if they were strictly racing he would recommend carbon kevlar.
Now with all that said, this coming Saturday I’ll be doing three five mile down river races.
One in a tandem, kevlar C-2
One in a tupperware Perception Eclipse kayak
and one in a Royalex solo Sandpiper canoe.
Hopefully there will be enough water to let the kevlar boat survive
Cheers,
JackL
Thanks Jackl
With the QCC there is only a few pounds difference. Sounds like the Kevlar is the right choice for us. Good luck this weekend!
Your welcome,
I hope your choice is the right one.
cheers,
JackL
Jackl, you probably have NO all
Kevlar boats. Boats laid up with nothing but Kevlar are very seldom seen, because they don’t work well.
Thanks, salty
You have much knowledge. 
That makes perfect sense (certain materials being better for certain applications). I probably won’t call up a bunch of material suppliers and chat, but when/if the time comes that I am ready to buy, I’m sure the QCC people won’t lead me astray. I’ve talked to them twice (briefly, because I didn’t want to waste their time) and they seem like good folks, although I think the man who passed away was the one I talked to (is that Phil?). He was super nice and took time to talk with me about selecting the right model for my size and intended use. We didn’t really talk materials, though. I hope everyone there is as good as Phil.
No, they’re not paddlers
so I think you are absolutely right - they’re off base on this one.
I’ll nod and smile from now on…
LOL, cute
You have a funny place in YOUR head!
JackL and String
So you’re saying SOME manufacturers get soft spots in their kevlar but QCC doesn’t, therefore kevlar might be worth the extra dollars when buying a QCC. Did I get that right?
Sounds like what salty was saying also.
Sorry if I’m a tad slow on this topic, I don’t know much about these materials but repetition is the key.
Ok, this explains a lot
however, a certain dealer told me that the Eddylines shouldn’t be paddled below freezing temps because of their tendency to be brittle in cold weather. That was in 2004. Maybe this dealer didn’t know they had changed materials. ??
I think just the name “Carbonlite” confuses some people (and I’ll admit to being one of them who was confused).
No all kevlar
Kevlar in., glass out - as it should be. They did it right and it makes for a good hull and really good compromises for weight and overall toughness. I’d bet they sell more of this layup than anything else - and it works out well for all.
Their Kev/carb abd carbon are stiffer/lighter - and very nice - but I doubt the price/performance tradeoff makes sense for most users in the same way (another way to say same as above about sales). But I don’t consider QCC to be “race” kayaks that need to be ultra stiff/light.
Think again
See my other post. I think you’ll appreciate the weight savings of at least the Kevlar layup (which is glass outside/Kevlar inside). These are not like oldschool WW kayaks that started the Kevlar myths.
The Kev/carb is nice to if in budget, but likely overkill for you, all carbon even moreso.
When it comes to QCC layups, talk to folks at QCC!!! Skip the peanut gallery (even the knowlegable ones are talking generalities, not specifics). Every maker does things differently.
If they’d do my 19’ x 19" Q900, I’d push for a glass carbon layup too.
I never said “some manufacturers…
have soft spots in their kevlar”
I said “QCC doesn’t”
I don’t speak about other boats or manufacturers that I don’t know anythoing about, but if some one says something goood or bad about a boat that I have experience with, I’ll be the first to jump right in and either agree or disagree.
cheers,
JackL
Accolrding to that Wenonah has been…
lying to the to the multitude all these years!
cheers,
JackL
Wenonah seems never to give
specifics about their resin or their layup. If yourr Wenonahs definitely fuzz on the bottom, then possibly they are all Kevlar. But why would they do that, when even a single layer of glass or carbon stiffens the boat, and avoids fuzzing?
Donna
You will get partial answers here from very well meaning folk who are paddlers, not necessarily composite experts. Although some industry and/ or very knowledgeable folk here. Patrick, Greyak, G2D, LeeG, envyabull, Eric, etc.
This is an arena that can cause confusion because there are so many variables. Partial understanding can lead to blanket statements.
Kevlar 49 is an aramid material (form of nylon). Very strong in tension, but rather weak in compression. The fabric itself can absorb major impact well and it’s light. So, it makes for a good layer for impact and when used with core materials can make for a light, pretty tough, stiff (with core or glass / carbon back-up)lay-up / matrix.
Where it can become soft is in a laminate that has some years of pounding. Kevlar doesn’t like to bond to other materials in a lay-up / matrix as well as does Carbon or glass. What this “can” mean is that over time the kevlar can start to break away from it’s neighboring bonded materials. Interlaminar breakdown can happen and the resulting softer matrix happens in time. We see this with surf kayaks that free fall of waves, and generally take a beating.
While kevlar can help a kayak survive a major hit, it’s not as tear proof once bonded in a matrix as some may think, unless there are several layers. The result of said hit will sometimes be a larger area of interlaminar seperation resulting in a more complex repair, whereas Carbon / glass will tend to be very localized damage that is easy to fix.
So, where we gain in one attribute we can lose in others. Thus the careful design of a given laminate to accomplish a job. QCC does excellent work, so you can relax knowing they’ve applied the materials well.
Some kevlar / carbon co-weaves help with the interlaminar bonding issue, but compromise in other areas.
Carbon and glass can produce a very light and stiff hull…typically more so than Kevlar can, and thus in QCC’s case or others with similar design goals that’s going to be their lightest / race option. This DOES NOT mean that a carbon glass boat cannot be insanely strong and impact resistant! Again, it can be confusing.
Let’s consider that carbon paddles are very tough. I can beat my Carbon Lendal with a claw hammer! We do not see 100% Kevlar paddle blades often do we? There are reasons for that. Likewise we do not see Kevlar bicycle frames, or Kevlar air skins on jets…why? Because it’s not the best choice for those applications. This does not mean it can’t be great in some kayaks.
It does make sense for the go fast efficient kayak hulls, in race applications etc, when properly manufactured.
Bottom line as I’ve sail so many times here…Kevlar can produce a great kayak, is a good material, but has limitations that may or may not apply to your use.
My preference has definitely switched to all Carbon, glass, cored laminates as I find them to be the toughest, most durable I’ve experienced.
Regarding a craft like the QCC, I say buy the lightest one you can afford, care for it, and paddle many happy nautical miles in it. Great product…can’t go wrong, don’t try to understand the intricate details of composite lay-ups…just enjoy the boat.
Nanci pushed for the Q-10 to be 19"
but Phil said it would never sell.
If they ever build your Q-900, I’ll be the second on the list to get one.
cheers,
jackL
I saw a Minnesota II with very fuzzy
ends. That would suggest to me that it was kevlar. It didn’t look like there had been enough wear to already worked through an outer layer of glass.