Dry tops only keep you dry (and warm) if you stay in the boat.
Once you exit the boat, the dry top is pretty useless.
To keep warm out of the boat, you'd need something else. Either a wetsuit (of some kind), dry pants rolled with the dry top (not very popular, it appears), or a dry suit.
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You don't say whether you can roll nor do you say whether you are planning on kayaking with other people (who know competent enough to perform rescues).
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If you want a good dry top (and breathable), those start at about $250. The ones costing $400 are likly Goretex. Goretex has a good reputation but it's expensive. It appears that an alternative to Goretex, eVent has a good reputation for breathability and is less expensive.
($100 seems too low a price for a -good- dry top.)
"Dry Top + Dry Pants aren't as good as a dry suit? I'd guess the water goes in the waist, which is a shame."
From what I can tell, these can work OK if you roll the two pieces of clothing together carefully. This "seal" can work OK if you aren't too active. I think part of the problem is that the pants are expensive.
"I'm learning to roll and certainly wouldn't trust it yet. I won't be paddling alone and would be able to get a rescue or do a float rescue."
After a roll, having other people assist you is the best thing. (The float thing may take too long and is hard to do in rougher/colder water.)
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The key thing to realize is that a dry top is only useful (regarding safety) if you are -in- the boat.
Keep in mind that you can get decent dry suits for about $500.
If you are paddling with competent paddlers (who can rescue you quickly), you might not even need a dry top.
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Note that dry tops work with skirts.
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Keep things simple (you probably don't need an [attached] hood).
Immersion Research, NRS, Kokatat, Stolhquist (and others) are well-known companies are well-known companies who produce quality stuff.
(I'm not familiar with Level Six.)
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Maybe, eVent is "colder" but you can always "layer up" to solve the "colder" problem.
If you are actively paddling, being too warm is a more common problem.
Most people have problems with the "breathability".
Keep in mind that "breathability" isn't going to be magic. It's not that hard to overwhelm the breathability of any fabric if you are very active or if the ambient humidity is high. (I recommend getting a breathable fabric but don't expect it to be perfect because that isn't really reasonable.)
For sea kayaking (especially), I'd strongly favor breathability over "coldness".
The thing about a hood On a cloudy day with rain this last weekend my hood was up. A secure hat may have also done the job, but a GoreTex hat that’ll be useful in rain is over $40 and the Mystery hood can be found from NRS for as low as $22 if they are selling off last year’s stuff (as is usual about now). With that up, any old hat will do the job.
Also, the OPer is learning to roll. By soon now and next spring they’ll want a hood anyway. If they get the hood for this trip it’ll be the same thing that they can use down the road.
Also to the OPer, until you can roll you should also mess around to get a cowboy re-entry. For guys with the right proportions, it can be faster than the paddle-float re-entry and less complicated.
As above, if you are paddling with others you should just go to an assisted rescue first because it’s the fastest of your likely alternatives done right.
Now you know how old I am That’s the original vintage Kokatat Dry suit with a teal blue and yellow - both faded. I used to sit in my front seat to change and flip the suit on the roof so I would not get sand etc. on it. One day I drove home with the suit on the roof and it came off and I never got it back. I went back and re-drove my 2 mile route a dozen times and asked around. Gone.
I was talking about hoods attached to the dry top or dry suit. (An attached hood would quite likely be annoying when rolliing.)
A separate hood is quite useful.
"GoreTex hat that'll be useful in rain is over $40"
You probably don't need GoreTex if it's really raining and, anyway, such a hat would be useful beyond using it with a dry top or a dry suit (like in camp). Plus, you'd be able to hear better with the hat. $40 seems cheap for something that has multiple uses.
dry tops not useless when you swim I disagree that a dry top only keeps you warm when you’re in the boat. Assuming that you’re wearing warm-when-wet synthetic fabrics (polypro/fleece) underneath, anything that prevents water from circulating around your body will keep you warm in the water. Just because you’re not bone dry doesn’t mean you can’t be kept warm (wet suits are a good example).
I live across the bay from Mount Dessert Island. My standard outfit for paddling in my home waters during late spring, summer, and early fall, is a shorty john or farmer john, and a Stohlquist semi-dry top. Rolling, I get a trickle through the neck seal, but not enough to get my shirt wet. If I take a swim (as I did during a tidal races class on Saturday), I get enough water through the waist that my shirt will be damp, but no more so than if I had been sweating. Since water isn’t flowing into and out of the top, any water that seeps in is quickly warmed, and stays there (as in a wet suit).
I’m certainly not arguing that a drysuit isn’t better ultimate protection, but I think a drytop and wetsuit is a safe combo for seasonal paddling up here.
"I disagree that a dry top only keeps you warm when you're in the boat. Assuming that you're wearing warm-when-wet synthetic fabrics (polypro/fleece) underneath, anything that prevents water from circulating around your body will keep you warm in the water."
Certainly, anything is better than nothing but things are going to get pretty grim quickly with only "polypro/fleece" under a dry top if you take a swim. Such a setup won't keep you very warm.
"Just because you're not bone dry doesn't mean you can't be kept warm (wet suits are a good example)."
I said a wetsuit (with a drytop) would work. It's the expectation that a drytop alone is sufficient (and, in general, it obviously won't be) that I'm warning against.
"I live across the bay from Mount Dessert Island. My standard outfit for paddling in my home waters during late spring, summer, and early fall, is a shorty john or farmer john, and a Stohlquist semi-dry top."
A reasonable set-up.
"I'm certainly not arguing that a drysuit isn't better ultimate protection, but I think a drytop and wetsuit is a safe combo for seasonal paddling up here."
I agree! For safety, a drysuit or a wetsuit is key.
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The simple advice: A drytop alone is next to worthless when swimming. (It isn't the purpose of a drytop to work that way.)
(Keep in mind that this advice is not directed to "experts" who have sufficient knowlege and experience to decide what works for them.)
(Keep in mind too that we are talking about sea kayaking.)
I tried on a few jackets and realized how uncomfortable the latex is on my neck. Seems like overkill for sea touring, unless there are huge waves engulfing the boat. I picked up a gore-tex paddling jacket (kokatat, http://www.kokatat.com/product_detail.asp?code=plp) for about 225 and used the rest to get a pair of goretex pants. If it’s cold, I’ll wear a wetsuit underneath.
wear your wetsuit! Hey Mr Greenfur. If it’s not too late, check out the semi dry tops. They have neoprene necks, which are totally comfortable. And they’ll offer more protection IMO than a paddling jacket.
Wearing a paddling jacket, and gore-tex pants, there’s no question, in my mind, that you need to wear a wetsuit in Maine. It doesn’t matter if it’s cold out or not. The water is below 60 degrees up here, so rubber-up!
Don’t wait for the wetsuit As above, you are talking water no warmer than the mid-fifties. It’s too late to put on a wetsuit after you’ve taken a swim and you are still out on the water. As I said, this was adequate for many (including Nate) this last weekend including wet work, but for others like me it would have been at the bare edge of comfort in that water.
One of the arguments for a decently breathing drysuit, which I suspect you will come to appreciate by this coming spring, is that you can put relatively light layers underneath when the air is warm and the water is cold and, assuming you get out of the water fairly quickly, still be plenty covered in case of a capsize.
combo for early fall- OK Making a few assumptions - your planning to paddle with others, you have a reliable self rescue and your skills are such that you know to bring a dry bag of clothes and can layer with fleece under your paddling jacket.
That combo should be good for early Fall as long as the water is above 50 and we don’t have a really cold spell in the day time. It might be useful to add a pair of wetsuit shorts or pants as an addition to your wardrobe.
Everyone’s cold tolerance is different and you should be aware of yours. If you get cold easily, then bring more to layer up with than someone else would.
There are only three different ways to dress on the water:
wet unprotected
Wet -protected - this is where the splash protection, wet suit combo’s and semi dry options come in.
Dry - protected - drysuit or a dry top and dry pant combo - with the necessary ability to “mate the two” properly so that they don’t leak. Some people can use these and stay bone dry, some get a trickle and sloppy people get wet.
Good luck and enjoy your trip! Paddling the coast of Maine is my favorite place to paddle.
I went with a farmer john wetsuit and a dry top here in N. Ca. This combo works well on our cold Pacific Ocean…56 degrees…burr. If you get too hot, take off top and use a rash guard or Mysterio top. I will use this setup all year long on my kayaks, SOT and SIK. If dumped in cold water, I’ll take a wet suit any day over a dry suit.
same here… …didn’t get into specifics in my other post but that was my choice also for where I paddle. I found a dry top and hydroskin combo along with a farmer john/boots combo for a fair price at http://outdoorplay.com/ as recommended by Tsunamichuck.