What I was talking about was the ADDED risk of making a second 130-mile round trip drive vs the risk of paddling that day without a PFD.
The ADDED risk of making a second 10-mile trip is lower than the ADDED risk of making a second 130-mile trip.
Highest risk = driving an extra 130 miles.
Second highest risk could be EITHER driving an extra 10 miles OR just paddling without the PFD that day.
For me, the added drive is riskier because my odds of a kayak incident in calm conditions is extremely low. I would never say that driving is extremely low risk, not in this century.
I always suspected that Werner is part of the Evil Empire. I am hanging on to my Big Spoon prototype (goat paddler) paddle. Company long passed away due to the dominance of the evil empire. However, my BIg Spoon, almost 20 years old, still has no nicks or chips in its hefty carbon fiber lay up, despite heavy usage in WW and surf. Uh… Maybe that is why the company is gone…?
Not to belabor the point, but odds do not work that way. If I drive one mile and buy a loto ticket and my odds of winning are one million to one or if I drive 100 miles the same ticket odds will still be one million to one. Of course the risk of driving is increased but the odds of winning the loto are not changed by the length of the drive to buy a ticket.
In the case of wearing a PFD it is more like Russian Roulette. We are betting on a risky activity at the end of each drive and the odds are changed because of the drive because the drive directly effects the odds. I don’t know if the odds of having a problem in a river are one in six or if wearing a PFD reduces the risk to zero in six, but I know I wouldn’t play Russian Roulette even if I knew the chance of having a bullet in the chamber was a million to one unless I had no choice.
So it is not really risk/reward it is about choice and driving to the location to paddle is a risk you have to assume if you want to paddle. We do the same thing on the drive. We wear seat belts, we buy a car with air bags, we read safety tests on cars and we exercise safe driving skills. But there is still risk involved.
What we are really saying is it is about distance or actually time. How do you make such a decision? Say everything was equal except instead of being alone you had your 10 year old son or daughter along to paddle with you and you forgot both PFDs. Could you explain to them today we are going to take a little more risk because we forgot our PFDs and the drive home is too far. If the Coast Guard or the Fish and Game pull you over will they understand the risk reward logic when you explain the length of the drive involved that you based your reason on? No and they will tell you how far you drive has no impact on what you do on the water and that safety regardless if the paddle is calm or rough.
That’s just my thoughts and we will all have to agree to disagree.
There are two issue in play. One is assuming a risk, and the other is compliance with the law. It still comes down to personal choice, whether accepting the risk or accepting a fine if caught.
If I drove 130 miles, I’d tirn around and go home, or find a water sport store and buy a PFD. I’m not being judgemental; that’s just “my” decision. I kayak for a sense of freedom. There’s enough to detract from that pleasure, and I wouldn’t be able to enjoy paddling thinking about the “what ifs”:
a) What if I actually needed tbe PFD, or
b) What if I had to deal with being challenge for non-compliance, then have to pay a fine. Cheaper and easier to invest in a spare PFD for friends who use my spare kayaks. Still a personal choice - choose wisely.
If the concern about wearing a PFD is about overheating, buy a PFD that has a belt clip on the bottom. If you do have to ventilate, the belt will at least make it easier to keep the PFD from slipping off. Another option is the inflatable type devices. I’m sure there are advantages and disadvantages of my suggestions, but they’re options and law compliant.
My point of view is you can always paddle another day, but you can’t if you’re D E D, ded! Personal choice.
With decades of icy water paddling behind me, in both hard boats and high-end inflatables(non “pool toys”) I could make the argument that an inflatable SUP or kayak/canoe IS A PFD----If not even better at providing extended buoyancy. All one has to do is hang on. Some of my past and current inflatable hulls…
And how many casual observers seeing a guy with both a helmet and a drysuit on, would even notice if he had a vest on/or that he was flirting with becoming a fatality?
Compliance? How many enforcement officials you think frequent the remote places I and others practice skills at?
When I see mountain climbing friends of mine, ascending vertical cliff face–I assume they are competent, know what they’re doing safety-wise, even if short a piece of equipment. And they/I already know there’s inherent risk with an outside chance of fatality involved. It is the same regardless of whatever extreme sport. You work with what you got!
Well spiritboat, I appreciate your post. Nothing like touching on a safety-related topic to turn yourself into an instant lightning rod.
My take is that you have enough experience to evaluate all the risks and decide if you’re comfy with your own safety plan (which always includes accepting some risks). I think that actually understanding your own risks puts you ahead of at least 90% of paddlers.
Sometimes I paddle without a PFD in the summer when I’m on a small creek with a young guide/lifeguard but please don’t tell anyone.
Of course I know nothing about you or your river or your paddling conditions or anything else needed to have an informed opinion so I’ll just enjoy the pile-on and say OMG you paddled without a PFD…in six inches of cold water on an 80 degree day? OMG OMG OMG !
“When I see mountain climbing friends of mine, ascending vertical cliff face–I assume they are competent, know what they’re doing safety-wise, even if short a piece of equipment. And they/I already know there’s inherent risk with an outside chance of fatality involved. It is the same regardless of whatever extreme sport. You work with what you got!”
Exactly. And what you have one day is not the same as what you get another day. Preparing for disaster every outing doesn’t cause actual harm, but doing without a PFD doesn’t mean automatic crisis. Experienced paddlers have other tools, namely skills such as swimming, or excellent preventative skills such as bracing and rolling.
Each of us is ultimately responsible for ourselves. That’s why I detest the Safety In Numbers mantra. If any paddler (outside of a training or commercial guided beginner trip scenario) expects someone else to be their #1 “rescuer,” they are a weak link in the group. A PFD does not get you to shore, it only floats those who cannot tread water or swim. A useful “buoyancy aid” but not a talisman.
Thank you for the beautiful photos and thoughts on acceptable (to you) risk. Whether or not you intended it, the thread has a subthread: The advantages of solo paddling. Nanny is not invited or welcomed.
@spiritboat also agree. Personal choice. The risk of enforcement isn’t the issue. Even if caught without a PFD, the fine probably wouldn’t be enought to interfere with the “fun” of many paddlers. It’s just “my” approach. I also agree with Steve about understanding your limitations. I don’t want to find out that I’m a sinker, take a chance, or be distracted. My goal was to point out to like thinkers that there are options, even if inconvenient.
Back in the 70s, we paddled a river that had up to class III rapids using a 17 ft aluminum canoe and one of those Coleman platic canoes. We typically didn’t wear the PFD until we got to the fast water, and then mainly put them on so we didn’t have to chase them if we capsized. Neither of the canoes survived. The Coleman didn’t learn a lesson with the first mishap, it was repaired to “live twice”, Rest in Pieces.
I now wear a PFD at all times while on the water. Not because I think I’m wiser, but moreso because I have 10-15 good years left and have more to lose. Back then, I had my whole life ahead of me. Now I’m retired and my annuity means I no longer have to work. So it’s greed that makes me want to recover as much of that free money as possible. I simply enjoy the peace of mind that come from being older. My younger years had enough turmoil that I now cherish the peace and quite of open water.
Preseny, I only require anyone using one of my boats to wear a PFD. I don’t want to decide whether to save someone’s life, or to chase my paddle, the unused PFD or boat (agree that its best to hold onto an overturned boat). Even for an open bidy of water, the current can exceed 3 mph. Things separate fast, delending on wind, current, and tide. I have no doubt you can handle yourself and made it clear that you typically wear a PFD/floatation. As pointed out, people take risks climbing shear rock walls . . . That doesn’t inspire me to follow them. I know my limitations.
@PcomStealsYourData also agree. The key word in PFD is “personal”. It is for the one wearing it. The tragedy is if someone without floataion see a person without a PFD struggling and feels compelled to assist. That’s a mistakes!
I started in a metal Grumann canoe, also in the 1970s…With my first multi-night trip being 55 miles down the Delaware.
I like to think I can still eat lightening and crap thunder with the best of 'em. And even with my wife regularly complimenting me with “You look like you’re 45!” --My joints usually need a buffer day after any strenuous paddle. Touring on flats, unless camping, I don’t wanna know about anything over a 12 mile day tops, ever again.
Thank manufacturers for those early boats. We all typically learn by first touching the hot stove, at least once. I shudder to think of the many close calls over my lifetime. I suspect that many who protest loudly may be speaking with the most authority. Therefore, we would be wise to heed their warnings. That’ how I look at it. Keep paddling for many more years.
I worked with a skydiver and asked him why he gave it up. Although he never had a mishap, many of his late friends had. He decided that he spun the cylinder 6 times and felt the odds were against him. Pulling that cord became too much of a distraction for enjoyment.
Oh, I’ve had that fun. Especially when they were new. I tell people, “If I come to your wedding/funeral, I’ll probably be in drywear as it’s the most expensive suit I own.” Always advisable to “burp” one first in the Sun before you get in the drink…
In my state you can be fined $75 if the “fish police” discover you are out in a canoe or kayak without a PFD. Never mind the idiocy of the regulation that you are not required to be wearing it and it can just be stashed under the seat. With that it mind, for the entire season (beginning as soon as it stops snowing) I take my two least favorite ( as in bulky, cheap and uncomfortable) PFD’s that I rarely use and only keep as loaners and stash them under the seats in my car so there is always one there if I forget. Since I have at least once forgotten to bring a paddle, I also stash my 4 piece travel paddle on the floor in the back seat. Most often I have ended up loaning these to other paddlers who have forgotten their own gear. But they have saved my own bacon a couple of times.
I have to admit, though it is a relief to have backup when you’ve goofed when loading, the discomfort of using the clunky PFD and the standard paddle (I am spoiled by GPs) helps to remind me to double check that I have my preferred kit when I load the next time.
