All but guaranteed!
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Another great analogy. Dale Earnhardt sunned the use of any head/neck safety restraints thinking he knew better on 2/18/01 and was sure they were not needed based on never needing them in the past.
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My exact thought. Look out for #1, because nobody else will. We arenât living on fantasy island. NASCAR is one area where drivers can experience life defying acts and walk away.
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Wow. Look at all the âAnthropologistsâ whoâve come out to play.
Yes, those poor ignorant Inuit in1936âŚWhy should they as an indigenous water-fairing people know anything about aquatic safety??? I mean, their ancestors only invented the kayak thousands of years before, from found bits of floating driftwood. And geez, they didnât even have the safety benefit from modern hull materials like plastic or kevlarâToo bad their âstandardsâ were so far below our modern hubris.
As a matter of fact, they DID have some floatation and equivalency to modern PFDs, while using these vessels that were originally made for hunting (another"dangerous" activity). Seal bladder, anyone? But more importantly, they hedged the odds more in their favor with these things called uhâŚoh yeah, skills.
Dale Earnhardt, really? No skills, I guessâŚThink one of the most successful auto racers in history, wasnât aware of the inherent dangers in his chosen profession?
Kinda like saying the Inuit in 1936 or any other time arenât aware of the dangers in the sea.
Thereâs ârisky behaviorâ (like say, smoking four packs a day) and thereâs âacceptable riskâ(which one ALWAYS incurs in water sports, even with a PFD to offset the odds).
Again, all the expert pontificators here:
I never advocated full time non-PFD wear. And I am not so cavalier to enter the water at anytime any place with the thought âNot me, not today.â But I had no problem with the acceptable risks of using an SUP in what was roughly less than four feet of water at the time. Because like the Inuit, I am confident in my possession ofâŚskills.
No brag, just fact. Now I think itâs time to go ride my bike without a helmet.
You wonât get any argument from me. I wear a PFD for me, not because of the law, and I dont worry about what woukd happen if I donât come back from a trip. Iâm well insured and my wife probably thinks Iâm worth more dead thsn alive. Sheâs probably right.
Nobody will argue about Dale Ernhart having skill. I think the point is he didnt think he needed the thing that could have save his life. We all go out sooner or later. He just went out sooner.
Iâm not worried what anyone else does. Enjoy the water.
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Well as long as we are on the topic of risk assessment and the all or nothing approach isnât one to adhere to maybe you can explain for folks of different skill levels what point for them would be an appropriate to paddle sans PFD. Is there a way to factor in age, strength, swimming skills, water and air temp, water depth, water speed, etc, and lets not forget the most important factor distance from home when one discovers they have no PFD.
You are correct Earnhardt knew exactly the risk factors he was assuming and by all accounts refused to use safety gear others in the race where using that most feel could have totally changed the outcome.
I have no problem what any adult decides to do also. Earnhardt made his choice and we will never know his last thoughts on the subject.
Again Iâm not objecting to anyone doing whatever they want. Iâm objecting to there is some formula being implied that based on this and that you donât need a PFD. I agree there may be times the need is almost zero. I go down our river in the summer and I see kids swinging out on Tarzan ropes over swimming holes and jumping off roadway and train bridges into rocky swimming holes and none of them have PFDs on. I donât think it is all that smart, but I did similar things as a kid.
As a forum I just think we have a responsibility to educate as well as entertain.
If there are situations where a person doesnât need a PFD then we should come out and embrace that. Where I live 95% of the people paddling donât wear a PFD but have one tied to the boat to be legal.
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There is a situation where one doesnât require a PFD, and itâs called swimming. Iâm a good swimmer, having been both a lifeguard and swam competitively in college(and itâs been four decades since I graduated.) I still try to get over to the rec center pool every week, barring any more upticks in Covid. I also paddle year-round in the Northeast, and any vacations I can fit in points south. No off-seasonâSo my comfort and personal safety level, is much different than the average warm weather lilly dipper.
All that aside, I still know my limits and practice them accordingly. If I had went even an hour from home to paddle in a section of the Hudson river(a tidal estuary) thenI definitely wouldâve thrown in the towel for the day with âShit. Forgot my PFD!â
I had guests last summer. One, a guy older than me, overweight and plainly out of shape. When I went to hand him a vest, he waved it away with âNoâŚThatâs okay.â (This was a good friend, I knew to have been a lifeguard as well, back in the day.)
My reply?
âDude, theyâre my boatsâSo my rules.
Put it on or donât go. Whatever you used to be, you ainât right now.â He realized he made the right choice. After we paddled out to a small island in that same lake, we both
removed our vests and took a swim.
Itâs all about judgement calls and willingness to live(or not)with potential consequences.
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Im a 100 percent pfd kind of guy. I also need to get back to the pool for some swim practice. We each get to make our own decisions about our level of preparedness. If i drown on the river it will be with my pfd on. I boat with others who dont always agree with me. Im okay with that. I just assume theyâre less intelligent than i am and probably not much use to me if im the one needing help.
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I agree that itâs about personal choices.
Iâd never consider myself a 100% PFD person since I know there are scenarios where itâs more important to swim than float and as SB points out thatâs why lifeguards donât wear PFDâs.
Personally I wouldnât assume that someone else is dumber than me just because they donât agree with me on everything and as far as whoâs gonna help me if Iâm in trouble Iâll take the fit, experienced swimmer/paddler without a PFD every time over the 100% PFD wearer that canât defend their swimming abilities. I also think that the people that are able to help others are less likely to need help themselves plus if/when they do need help theyâll be âgoodâ (cooperative) victims.
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My thing about pfds is simple. We can rehash this, i dont mind. For me it is exactly like wearing a seat belt. It is easy to put on, comfortable, and iâll have it on when I need it.
That last part it is key, have it on when I need it. Part of intelligence is knowing what you dont know. I simply dont know when Iâll need it. Iâve never regretted wearing it. The whole premise of this post was i forgot my pfd but wonât need it because im skilled or situationally aware. I simply disagree. Rivers and lakes are far more dangerous and more unpredictable than swimming pools.
I think ive boated without every piece of gear, including the boat, but for me the pfd is a mustâŚif i dont have it i dont go. When stuff happens it often happens quickly, a wind shift, someoneâs foot gets lodged under a rock or root, someone falls off a sup and hits their head. The pfd is the starting point for mitigating some of those dangers. Next on the list is dressing for immersion. Im hardcore about that as well. Yesterday i was one of the few that wore a pfd. I didnt feel stupid at all. No lectures were given.
Water quite warm here in texas, more worried about the sun so yes we adapt our strategies but for me the pfd is essential .
To me the definition of âdumbâ is suping alone without a pfd in a whitewater environment, with clearly visible rocks and small surf features that are shown in the photos. Thankfully the helmet was worn. The added risk of falling from height from a sup into a rocky shallow area increases not decreases the risk of drowning. To be frank, there is no way in hell Iâd do that without a pfd. It was sketchy. I do some sketchy stuff. To me this thread was âi did something dumb and got away with itâ . I think someone put their desire to paddle before their safety. That was their choice to make but not the choice i would make and post about. I do a lot of questionable stuff but always with the pfd on and the really questionable stuff doesnât get posted.
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Itâs winter somewhere.
Close string, windbound on the gulf coast . If i get really bored i could drive into town without wearing a seatbelt.
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Well Said.
Well, if you put your seat belt on when you back your car out of the driveway to wash it I might make fun of you but in a good-natured way. And if you ever find your car underwater or on fire you might want to take it off but itâs all about choices.
Sorry, raining in Michigan. I think we may agree but just look at things a little differently.
Happy paddling!
They wanted to make sure you could find it, wag bags required, didnt use it though
Ive dragged this whole thread to the crapper!
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Figure it out for yourself, then live or die with âyourâ decision.
So we can all make our own decisions, but we can do more than that. The picture below is a non swimmer who is now wearing a pfd. I gave her something to think about . Yesterday, The conversation went like this,
Me: so you like kayaking?
Her: yeah, Dustin got me into it, but Iâll never be into it as much as him. I cant swim. I had a scary experience as a kid and almost drowned.
Me: so you always wear a lifejacket when you go?
Her: no, actually never, but i have my own, Dustin got it for me.
Me: so what will you do when you tip over?
Her: iâve never tipped over.
Me: you dont think it could happen? Tipping over?
Her: i could probably just stand up. The creek isnt very deep
Me: you dont think there are places over your head? You could get tangled up in tree roots or branches. Water is high right now. I feel safer and enjoy it more when i wear my pfd and i can swim.
Her: i see your point
Me: you know people do drown doing this stuff
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