FS competitions are by nature
exercises in dogma. How else does one measure the proper execution of a maneuver unless there exists some highly defined standard? So we’re stuck with judging the Initiation, Placement, and Conclusion. In the early days of FS we often could not get 180 degree turns without a good conclusion. In fact some maneuvers were taught with a cross bow component as suggested in a post above, but to achieve 180 degrees, not 360. As better heeling and placement techniques evolved and competitors gained hull configuration and bio-mechanical advantages by moving around in the canoe, 180 degree turns were done without much of a Conclusion necessary. Many competitors can get a fairly decent conclusion for a Axle or Post for instance without dropping the grip hand down and bringing the paddle to horizontal as in the classic draw to the bow. That’s the reality, but technically these classic moves should be shown. Perhaps the answer is to note a 180 degree turn and drop the requirement for a classic conclusion. So there ya go!
I would quickly add that without dogma, FS merely becomes a free-for-all entertainment where anything goes. One could actually train a monkey to do a quite wonderful routine in a canoe. Guess I’ll stick with the dogma instead.
Pag
2010 FFS movies
These are some movies I took at the 2010 FFS event, hope you enjoy them.
http://s161.photobucket.com/albums/t237/Kayak_Ken/Florida%20Freestyle%20Symposium/
First steps…
Here in the UK, Canoe and Kayak magazine had a coach demonstrate turning towards the paddle for one of a series of ‘Canoe Skills’ Videos: not really my idea of an axle… but perhaps more typical, in paddling circles, than the refined moves we see Marc making on you-tube.
Link: http://www.canoekayak.co.uk/video/picture.asp?id=4210
Maybe detailing the steps that any such paddler might be taken through at a symposium might help others whose technique is currently more like that shown in the video…
Ken
Thanks for posting those videos from last year’s FFS. For those who may not be aware, freestyle is done in tandem as well as solo canoes. The 3rd video posted is of Bob and Elaine Mravetz doing a tandem routine. Tandems have the advantage of more momentum and a stern paddler to counter balance the bow paddler. They have the added difficulty of coordinating the paddle work and body movements of the two paddlers.
Marc Ornstein
Body Position
As I look at some of the videos on line I see some where the paddlers seem to stay mostly with their butts against the seat and their knees on either side. They seem to do most maneuvers without moving their bodies very much. In other videos, the paddlers seem to be moving all over the place. Sometimes they are completely on their knees. Sometimes both knees are on the same side of the boat an so on.
Do different maneuvers require the paddler to move around in the boat? It looks a bit scary. Is the same maneuver called something different if the paddler is in a different position?
nope its all personal preference
and individual biomechanics. Sometimes transverse positions make going to the next movew easier and less abrupt with less boat bobble.
There are many many ways to move a boat. Some people are very quiet and centered in the boat and others prefer more athleticism. If your boat is pretty big or has lots of final stability (sometimes too much) you have to put all the weight on one side.
Moving around in the boat
has several effects.
Sometimes it’s simply for the comfort of the paddler. Most of the time I paddle slightly turned toward my on-side with both knees offset in that direction. I find it to be comfortable. Since the majority of maneuvers are on-side, I’m already partially positioned. The converse is that I need to move move or I need to prepare sooner for offside moves.
More to the point of your question however is how body position effects boat response. In the earlier days of freestyle, most paddlers stayed pretty much glued into the 3 point stance, one knee in each chine and butt on seat. Pretty much all movement had to be done by torso rotation. I’ll leave it to others who have been at this sport longer than I to elaborate on that.
At some point folks began moving about in the boat. They discovered that if you came up on your knees, the bow pitched down, the stern released and the boat turned faster. If you put both knees in one chine and came up on your knees, it was easier to heel the boat, especially a wider boat or one with a less round bottom. You could get more effective paddle placements if you “faced your work”. If you thrust your entire body far forward in the boat and placed your knees into the chine or perhaps one knee over the rail (High kneel thrust) you could take the weight shift/heel to extremes.
Offside moves became far more practical. Cross reverse moves, which until then required the flexibility of a contortionist, became useful both in in terms of functional paddling and exhibition.
Smoothly moving about in the boat is a skill in itself. It requires practice and sometimes a bit of guidance from others who have already figured it out. It pays to have a good pad that extends from a bit behind your toes to the forward thwart. Footwear that won’t catch your heels under the seat is a must. My personal preference is neoprene socks without any soles. I generally wear long nylon slacks as they seem to provide just the right amount of friction between my knees and the pad. Some wear Lycra tights but I think they look better on certain other paddlers.
Marc Ornstein
Marc says it eloquently…
I am amazed that he is able to eloquently put into words what is happening between paddler and boat. But then again he is an eloquent paddler and a great teacher.
You are right, it is scary - at first. But it is much like riding a two wheeler the first time. It takes some practice, a few nervous giggles, and a couple of screams of terror and (sometimes a swim). Eventually, the laughter and confidence comes.
Remember the people you see in the videos have been at this for a while. Watch Kim’s paddle some time; it is poetry. And Marc takes “comfort in a boat” to whole new level.
A New Maneuver The Post
The 2nd most common freestyle maneuver is likely the Post.
It is an onside turn and much like the axle, it is typically initiated with a strong J stroke. The placement is a high brace, just forward of the center of rotation and the conclusion is a draw to the bow, all very similar to the axle.
The difference is that the heel is to the offside. The post is truly a carved turn with the hydrodynamics of the hull working with you to turn the boat faster than the axle. Perhaps Charlie will chime in here and explain the theory better than I am able to. The post can be used in many of the same applications as the axle, but care must be taken on moving water. If an offside heel is used during a peel out or eddy turn, there is a greater likelihood of getting flipped as you cross the eddy line. It’s best used in places where the current and eddy line are not very strong.
The offside heel presents some challenges. In no particular order, I’ll list a few.
- You can’t see the the lower rail of the boat.
- It’s harder to reach the water with the paddle over the high side.
- It’s more difficult to keep the shaft reasonably vertical.
Eventually you’ll develop a feel for how far you should heel the boat. It’s easier to learn in warm weather when you can feel water trickling over the rail on your bare feet. In terms of reaching the water over the high side and keeping the shaft vertical, the key is largely to choke up on the shaft.
Marc Ornstein
The offside heel has some benefits
If you lose your balance you will most likely wind up in a heap in the boat. For this reason a high kneel post is unwise, unless you wish to risk needing to visit your dentist.(dont ask how I know)
Most people are leery of being pitched into the water. The post is quite unlikely to do that though with an overheel you can fill the boat and sink with grace.
I visualize actually putting my paddle under the boat and not alongside for max effect.
The post can be used…see the Pine Barrens thread… for twisty rivers with underwater stuff as not all of the blade has to be immersed for everyday travel. The post also works almost at a standstill as you as a soloist are trying to get by a maze of rocks that blocks the entrance to the portage trail.
As in all forward onside moves, your stance in the boat can be kneeling with one knee in each bilge…both knees in one bilge either facing forward or transverse and either with butt on seat or off the seat with hips relatively locked (which pitches the bow down to accentuate the turn).
In tripping where I want just a ninety degree turn and at barely a crawl I can come up on my knees and heel the hull over (packs wedged in or tied of course!) and wait for the boat to do the turn after I have planted my paddle.
Another clip from Mark Maier’s site…
This is with a high kneel… but might help anyone not familiar with the move:
http://www.freestylecanoeing.nl/videos/FSC06.html
Not to be picky but…
the video shows what is traditionally a 2 point heel. I point this out because the term “high knee heel” and “high kneel” are often confused and are not the same thing.
Heels used in FS are usually the Three Point (seated with butt and knees in contact with hull), Two Point with only knees in contact, and High Knee Heel or High Knee Thrust with one knee on the deck and one on the gunwale. There are a few variations of these as well. Note: Canadian style is not included here.
Pag
Canadian Style means
being curled up as small as possible in the bilge near the center of your boat. The focus is meant to be on the boat. The paddler is insignificant.
Please Pag, be picky!
Actually that was part of the idea for this thread. My hope was that I’d be sort of an instigator. I’d plant enough information to get things started. Folks like you would help fill in the blanks and provide additional insight. When things get a bit stale, I’ll instigate a bit more. In the end, we’ll all learn some new stuff. I for one never came across that distinction of terms. It makes sense because they are two different things.
While your at it, would you mind providing some historical perspective on when/how things evolved from the 3 point stance to the current variants involving transverse, high kneel etc. I’ve heard bits and pieces inc. Pat Moore and his pedestal boats, but I wasn’t involved in the sport at that time.
Marc Ornstein
Pickey! You think John is Pickey?
The Post is a neat maneuver, the first in any logical progression to take advantage of the hull in the water.
Think of the paddlecrafts' bow as a German chef's knife: equal bevel on both sides, so the hull runs true. Heeling a canoe changes those bevels so the heeled down side has a steeper angle like a chisel. Forward momentum deflects or carves the bow away from the heel and into the turn.
The Post is a more aggressive turn than the Axle. Part of that is the carving bows, but paddler and paddle contribute too.
The paddler almost always comes up on her knees, John's two point heel, to reach over the high, raised, rail. This pitched the bow down; increasing the carve and freeing more of the stern to enhance it's skid.
Secondly, it is difficult to bury the blade across that high rail, so the paddle tends to be presented more vertically, which increases the effectiveness of the blades drawing force.
The downside is that we tend to not be looking at the juncture between offside rail and the soup, and the brace we can engender with a ~ horizontal Axle is gone. Good Posts are unbraced turns and much snappier than Axles! For an even hotter Post, initiate with a sweeping Cross Forward to accelerate the hull into the turn. That J initiation is a weak and pitiful thing.
To anticipate the next question, "Why does an outside heeled Axle turn the boat onside?" Mostly because the initiation induces a yaw couple which overcomes the bow deflection of the heel. Occasionally the initiation is weak; the couple not initiated, and the poor boat just plows ahead on the diagonal. That's like telling your lab the bird is both to the right and left - you get confusion and nothing done.
A "pickey point" would be that while we can slice into the Axle's or Post's Duffek by palm rolling off the J initiation, it is cleaner, for starters, to take the blade out of the water off the J, invert it, and plant it again with the powerface at an open angle of attack. The slice and palm roll is confusing initially, and never works with bent paddles.
Please explain stances other than
the butt on seat and a knee in each chine. I get that, although it seems awkward. With both knees in the off side chine I don’t see how you can get the paddle to the water. Transverse, I don’t get at all. It seems your knees would be in the onside chine, so how do you heel to the offside?
Different stances and heels…
If you watch the assorted demo videos on Mark Maier’s European Freestyle site you’ll see a fair bit demonstrated.
Site: http://www.freestylecanoeing.nl/indexEN.html
E.g. Reverse Transverse Post: http://www.freestylecanoeing.nl/videos/FSC13.html
Different Stances
The “traditional” 3 point stance is straight forward although it may take some time to train your body. With one knee in each chine and your butt on the seat, you concentrate pressure on the offside knee while rotating your torso toward the onside and planting the paddle. Some choking up on the shaft is generally necessary. Keep your torso vertical (don’t lean toward the offside)and your grip arm fully extended (no chicken wings).
If you come up into a two point stance (weighting the bow down) you have two choices. The 1st is the same as the three point except you’ve brought your butt up off the seat. The second involves putting both knees in the offside chine (or perhaps one knee in the offside chine and the other simply moved closer to the center line). This heels the boat to the offside but requires a bit more of a stretch to reach over the onside. Choking up on the shaft is mandatory as is a fully outstretched grip arm. Good torso rotation is also a must.
Transverse is a bit different. Up until now we’ve been weighting the offside with our knees. With a transverse stance the weight is on our feet or butt. If you desire a more vertical posture the hull is rocked back with most of the pressure on your heels and or toes (sometimes the balls of your feet) which are in the offside chine. Your knees which will be in or near the onside chine with very little pressure on them. They are used mostly for balance.
A variant on the transverse post is often known as a butt post. It is similar to the above except one squats down with his/her butt against or on the offside rail. The knees may or may not be in contact with the hull. Contact is mostly with feet (in or near the chine) and butt on the rail. This stance requires extreme choking up on the shaft and extreme grip arm extension to get good verticality. Rarely is a truly vertical shaft position achieved.
Marc Ornstein
Again, not to be too picky but
the term “European Freestyle” is misleading. There is no difference between the U. S. and European FS. The Germans and other Europeans came to the U.S. for FS lessons and their instructors and curricula are the same as the U.S. U.S. FS instructors travel to Europe annually to conduct symposia. We are all on the same page conceptually notwithstanding some minor personal variations in execution. Basically its the same.
Pag
European site; American Freestyle
My grammar wasn’t very helpful in that post: Mark’s site is European; it’s devoted to style canoeing, including American Freestyle.
Sadly, I got involved AFTER the most recent set of US visitors… but if any of you are coming over for Kringelfieber 2011 (next May) then it would be great to see you 
I’m still working on getting to a US symposium, but they are all in UK school term time, which we cannot (as a rule) make!