@Rookie said:
Also, being able to set up a roll under water will make your roll much more usable in real life. I know a lot of paddlers who can roll when they train roll, but they never roll up when they capsize, because they depend on having set up the roll before they capsize.
Let’s emphasize that …
Setting up before capsize is part of learning, but once you are rolling well, you do not want to set up before capsize. This lack of pre-setup better simulates an inadvertent real-life roll.
@rsevenic said:
Also, being able to set up a roll under water will make your roll much more usable in real life. I know a lot of paddlers who can roll when they train roll, but they never roll up when they capsize, because they depend on having set up the roll before they capsize.
Let’s emphasize that …
Setting up before capsize is part of learning, but once you are rolling well, you do not want to set up before capsize. This lack of pre-setup better simulates an inadvertent real-life roll.
I was a clueless newbie without a paddle. The only “setup” I did (if that’s what it was), was rotating fully to my left so my shoulders were parallel to my boat and placing my hands on the hull, below the seam on the chines. Then rolling over. Which is when, for some stupid reason, I didn’t stay tucked or keep my head down and got disoriented. Did manage to come up on my right side, most likely thanks to momentum and my PFD. But I had lost contact with my seat.
I remain a clueless newbie.
You don’t need contact with the seat in order to roll…as long as you are controlling the kayak , a roll will work…with kayaks that have a high back deck , it works to leave the seat to roll the kayak…nothing wrong with it…
.> @Rookie said:
Did manage to come up on my right side, most likely thanks to momentum and my PFD. But I had lost contact with my seat.
@roym said:
You don’t need contact with the seat in order to roll…as long as you are controlling the kayak , a roll will work…with kayaks that have a high back deck , it works to leave the seat to roll the kayak…nothing wrong with it…
Thanks for that info, Roy. That was one of the first things I checked when I got the kayak. Arching my back I can sort of get on the back deck but from what I’ve seen on videos, there are other methods which, frankly, look a heck of a lot more comfortable.
@grayhawk
Appreciate your posting the photo. I hadn’t envisioned a complete fill as shown. Would it create a problem if the foam didn’t go all the way up (other than possible water entrapment)? I have the North Water short underdeck bag. The end of it is just about where my foot braces are and moving it forward will put it level with my cockpit rim, which could interfere with my knees. And bilge pump, which I stash like you do.
As to underdeck bag plus foam blocks - personally I couldn’t manage both in there. The foam block has to come up to where your feet are. But I rely heavily on my day hatch for anything I may need easy access to, and I can get to it without pulling the skirt. Unless I crammed something way into a corner that I need another paddler to reach to - I usually load it carefully to leave the mot likely needed stuff easily within reach.
One thing I didn’t mention - a three inch deep block is very comfortable but can be a bear to get out if you want to get back behind it. I have a strap with velcro ends wrapped around it so I can get it out of there if I want.
@Rookie said:
@grayhawk
Appreciate your posting the photo. I hadn’t envisioned a complete fill as shown. Would it create a problem if the foam didn’t go all the way up (other than possible water entrapment)? I have the North Water short underdeck bag. The end of it is just about where my foot braces are and moving it forward will put it level with my cockpit rim, which could interfere with my knees. And bilge pump, which I stash like you do.
I have a hole/notch cut in the top of the foam to accommodate the end of the pump. You could probably make room for the bag also.
Rookie, it sounds like you are taking the position racers take in surf skis. Some of our more flexible members paddle with their legs out of the cockpit on the deck. :o On a long distance paddle being able to vary the positions makes all the difference.
Qruiser often comments that I’m not rotating enough. Then complains/observes that she’s having trouble keeping up.
Know the different techniques. Practise them. Use what works for you.
@Overstreet said:
Rookie, it sounds like you are taking the position racers take in surf skis. Some of our more flexible members paddle with their legs out of the cockpit on the deck. :o On a long distance paddle being able to vary the positions makes all the difference.
Maybe, since racers tend to work on developing good technique. Could be that I’m a lazy paddler because it takes less effort when my legs are closer together and physically is much more comfortable. I always hang my legs out to drain my shoes when launching. But it’s shoulder paddling because there’s nothing to brace against. Coming in sidesaddle style is handy for a quick exit.
Came across this site the other day: http://www.kayakpaddling.net/2-2
“Keep your legs together with feet against the footpegs. Adjust the footpegs so that your knees are bent slightly and you are able spread and press them against the kayak for extra balance if needed. Keeping your legs together allows better torso rotation and makes paddling more efficient.” [emphasis added]
Good advice.
I hang both my legs off the side after I put butt in seat, also to drain water out of shoes. Actually, I hang both off the sides, then cross one leg before me and pull the shoe’s heel so that water runs out (involves some “dynamic edging”), then put that leg inside and repeat the procedure on the other leg. Obviously doable ONLY in calm water. I cannot fathom paddling that way for long, though. Can’t get much semblance of power when paddling with legs out, never mind torso rotation. I did get some incredulous stares and comments in WA when I did this, but it really wasn’t hard; I didn’t do it in breaking waves and even if I capsized I would have just laughed.
Then there are the fun memories of paddling with both legs on the front deck in my first boat, a rec kayak. And seeing someone in a long sea kayak go by giving me the dirtiest look, like “What a moron.” I had seen someone else do it, also in a rec kayak, and on those hot days it was enjoyable for a little while. Some people need to lighten up and enjoy trying silly but harmless things. The technique, such that it is, might come in handy in strange situations.
If the seat didn’t get in the way, I would sit backwards in the kayak and try paddling it that way to see what happens. I have sat on the rear deck facing forward and paddled it–very shakily!–but although I have sat facing backwards in the seat I have never tried paddling it that way. Next time…legs would have to be either hanging off the sides or on the rear deck.
Back to the original topic now.
Yesterday I compared paddling with legs/feet in three gradations from widest to narrowest. Widest is “normal frog”, the position that one would naturally default into in a particular kayak. Narrowest is knees together and poking up through the front of the keyhole (with no wiggle room on their sides) and feet flat on floor. Middle is where I paddle, which is a little inboard of normal frog. In that position, my feet are still on the footpegs and thighs still are under the thigh braces, with some vertical space (enough for a small degree of pumping). But there must be about 2", between the outside of each thigh and the hull side. I realized that middle had become my normal position over the years of paddling this kayak. Because I remember being annoyed by feeling the skeg cable sheath on my left side, “normal frog” must have been where I started in it. Middle is a compromise position, I suppose.
Oh, yeah, another thing. I had moved the seat 2 cm forward a few weeks ago. Gonna keep it there, as any increase in weathercocking is minor, and the blades enter the water that much further forward. Seems to work very well in my case.
