Glass, kev, poly, thermoform sea kayaks

Fiberglass/poly

– Last Updated: Jun-12-08 1:38 PM EST –

Well, fiberglass is more stiff than poly (sort of rubbery), so it makes sense that you'd feel vibrations more with fiberglass.

If something flexes more, it may be less efficient at transfering energy in a useful way (that is, less energy is transerferred to moving you forward because some of it is lost in flexing the boat.

Rough water is complicated and hard to predict the behavior in. There are also wide differences in preferences in rough-water performance.

Polyethylene gets "fuzzy" over time. This might increase friction and make it a bit slower. Fiberglass does get scratch but I don't think this makes big change in the amount of friction

For the most part, for the speeds that people normally paddle at, these differences are small.

Differences in hull shapes has an impact as well. I suspect that significant differences in hull shape is the first thing that matters.

If you are making a comparision, you have to look at changing one variable at a time (ie, material or hull shape).

All Thermalformed boats are not the same
I did not confuse this with Poly/roto. Valley, in my opinion, makes the nicest rotomolded kayak I have seen. Both from a design, and build quality standpoint. While the quality of the other mfg’s have improved, I do not think they are as nice as Valleys. This includes Necky, Perception, WS, Old Town, P&H, and so on. Just an opinion here. When it comes to thermalformed plastic, I like Eddyline. Again, just an opinion. No confusion on build methods here, I know what they are, and what I like. Bill

Clarification

– Last Updated: Jun-12-08 1:52 PM EST –

"I did not confuse this with Poly/roto. Valley"


The following two sentences right next to each other might be confusing to people.

"If you go with thermalformed, look carefully they are all not the same. I think Valley's rotomolded sea kayaks are outstanding boats at great prices."


Beyond that minor possible confusion, what you said makes sense and was helpful.

(Try breaking up your hard-to-read big block of text with an extra blank lines by hitting "enter".)

I’m Sold On Thermoform
Thermoform is fantastic! Better than any of the fiberglass boats I’ve owned.



Don’t forget Hurricane Aquasports, they seem very similar in construction to Eddyline.

Thanks for the hint on Hurricane
I hope I will be able to check their Tracer 165 when I go down to Appomattox River Company demoday this Saturday in Farmville, VA. Appomattox is listed as a dealer…

I feel very differently about that.
I feel that Hurricane and Eddyline are very different and you should paddle them both if you think you are going with thermalformed. Do not take a quick harbor tour in calm waters. Once you narrow it down, put the boats through their paces over at least an hour of paddling. Off wind stabiliy and weather cocking cannot be discovered in the harbor. If you are rolling, try that too, some boats do not lend themselves to rolling the way others do. Listen for turbulence, a noisy kayak is an inefficient kayak. Flexing is very important for efficiency too. All of my comments have an open water bias, if you are a river or small water paddler there are different needs for those situations that I am not sensitive to.

what’s confusing
is when you start your post with the text from the message to which you are responding. That’s confusing.

Eddyline


I think Eddyline has been doing the thermoformed thing longer than anybody else.

OK
I suppose many things are confusing to you.

Thermoform Rules!
I can speak to thermoform; we used to carry Eddyline and are going to be carrying Swift, whose thermoform kayaks are made by Hurricane.



I’ve used thermoplastic boats for four years; poly and composite for much longer, and I firmly believe thermoplastic is the best material for recreational and general sea kayaking (you do want composite in the gnarly stuff that maybe 10% of kayakers ever get good enough to enjoy).



Thermoplastic is lighter and stiffer than poly and much harder than poly or gelcoat. It is much more scratch-resistant than either. Scratches are usually superficial and easily sanded out. You don’t have to worry about sanding through the gelcoat to the laminate, since it’s all one layer.



It doesn’t fuzz like poly and you don’t have to baby it like gelcoat. You can easily polish thermoplastic back to the original high gloss.



It is not quite as impact-resistant as poly, so not the best choice for whitewater. But we’ve used the same boats for teaching, rentals and summer camps for three years, and they’ve been dragged, dropped, bumped, you name it, and they look almost as good as new. If you compare poly, thermoplastic and composite kayaks of the same age and neglect, the poly hull will be totally fuzzed; the gelcoat on the composite will be dull, gouged, cracked or highly patched, and the thermoplastic will have a few scratches but will still have much of the original glossy finish.



Thermoplastic is very easy to repair. Gouges and cracks are fillable with Devcon epoxy. My husband was cartopping a thermoplastic kayak and backed over the stern tiedown he’d left hanging. He ripped the rear pad-eye clean out of the deck, leaving a hole the size of a quarter with radiating cracks.



I reamed out the cracks with a jigsaw, repositioned the pad-eye, backed the damaged area from underneath with clear plastic packing tape, filled it with Devcon and topped it with more tape for a smooth surface. When the epoxy cured I removed the backing and voila! the repair has held for three years with almost daily student use in the summers, including rescue practice on the back deck on and off the water.



My only caveat is, don’t buy an Eddyline with clear bulkheads! The bulkheads are flimsy and only spot-glued; they tend to flex and pop the caulking and then leak like a sieve. Eddyline only used the clear bulkheads for a year or two back in 2004-2005, then went back to the thicker opaque material. Other than that, Eddylines are great boats, as are Swifts. I’ve heard good things about Delta, too.

huh?

– Last Updated: Jun-12-08 6:12 PM EST –

"I suppose many things are confusing to you."

What did you say?



















Maybe you can edit this for me.

you forgot to tell him what he said

– Last Updated: Jun-13-08 8:45 AM EST –

we want to make sure you've thought it out in print so you're not confused again.