there is
probably someone that lives by you or in driving distance. It says in your profile Northern Michigan…where in Northern Mi…close to the bridge or north by Marquette or west by the Wisconsin border?
Best Wishes
Roy
Agree
Little Traverse Bay,
– Last Updated: Jun-14-15 4:40 PM EST –
Petoskey/Harbor Springs area.
They're sold by a shop in Charlevoix, but that's the place that doesn't allow demos.
Betsy Bay of Frankfort makes them. Driving time is over two hours, one-way. That's a long way to drive just to satisfy my curiosity.
your
close to the site of Michigan Training Camp
http://www.qajaqtc.org/
might be a worthwhile trip …it’s a several day event…deep deep immersion in all things related to the Greenland paddle.
something to think about
Best Wishes
Roy
PS Betsy Bay are an older form of Greenland paddle than is common today…doesn’t work with a canted stroke. So it is not necessarily indicative of what you would see elsewhere including in Greenland today.
Yes,
I had looked at the Qajaq TC. It appears to be for established “traditional” paddlers as one of the equipment requirements is a GP. They have demonstration paddles, but note they’re not for use throughout the weekend. I don’t want to build a GP. Just try one.
Thank you for the info about the Betsy Bay paddles. Guess the paddle shop did me a favor with the no-demo policy.
People
– Last Updated: Jun-14-15 8:25 PM EST –
do come without a GP...there are usually enough.
I realized it was way more than you asked about but several of the people involved with this are from right around where you live...so it would give you a connection or 2 if nothing else.
In order to try a Greenland paddle..there must be one close to your size....at MTC...there are enough different sizes so that you would actually find what you need to try instead of just trying any old thing....
I wouldn't expect anyone to just try an Euro paddle without at least an attempt at trying one that would be close in size for them...so
It was just a thought and it is also a very fun way to spend the weekend.
Best Wishes
Roy
PS also you would be taught how to use it rather than having to figure it out...it's not quite the same stroke as is done with an Euro..the canted stroke is where the real power of the Greenland paddle comes.
Sounds like
baptism by fire.
If it were a one-day event, I’d be there in a heartbeat. On the other hand, it could be fun so maybe I’ll send an email off explaining I don’t own a GP or some of their other required equipment (dive mask, neoprene skirt [mine is nylon]) and see what happens.
Michael Gray’s outfit isn’t all that far from me and I had been thinking about scheduling a lesson - am pretty sure he will have GPs.
As to correct size, I kept notes of your response from another thread: “84 inch long paddle with a 19 or 20 inch loom … I would guess 3 1/4 to 3 3/8 inch max width”
Thanks for the help.
It could also be a form issue
Canting the paddle produces a lot more bite on the water than if you don’t cant it. I don’t find that my cadence with a GP is substantially different and I use torso rotation all the time. If you’re getting a lot of slippage, work on your technique first, then consider a paddle size change if you feel the need.
Why not do both?
Having a way to get away without it doesn’t mean edging can’t be used anyway.
I don’t get it either
I used to bias my grip placement on my euro paddle when countering wind and waves affecting my course - but was told it was poor form (and now get why). So this can also be done with a euro paddle. I’ve also heard of surf skiers using edging in combo with the rudder to maneuver in surf.
Which brings us to the rudder!
Why don’t I use the rudder?
Because I like to play around (edging, etc.)in the boat and advance my skills and am rarely in conditions in my 45 minutes to 1 hour outings where I would benefit from it and certainly don’t need it for those situations.
I would use it if I felt I needed it or wanted a change of experience and sometimes when using a bent shaft single blade canoe paddle.
A rudder would be sweet on my Bell Magic : )
Didn’t see an advantage to both in the
situation that I was messing around in, which was lilly dipping while out with my wife, who paddles much slower than I do.
I might do both in other situations, but the extended paddle and pushing on the short end just seemed so darned easy and low effort compared to edging that I didn’t feel motivated or impelled to try it that day.
I suspect that I’ll mess around with the combination at some point.
It’s a hand on the blade that’s easier
with the GP than with the Euro paddle.
I sometimes do shift hand position toward one side or the other on the shaft of my Euro paddle, but it never felt right to shift so far that my hand was on the blade, especially with the blades are feathered.
The GP blade at it’s widest is still narrow enough that I can grip it with my hand - not the case with my Euros.
Surface area and shape matters on all
styles of canoe and kayak paddles.
My Euro that’s most used is an Epic Relaxed Tour because of it’s relatively small blades. I use it high angle.
Correct length is just as important, as others have pointed out, not only for GPs, but for any paddle.
My Superior carbon GP one piece (which I bought used) may not be the ideal size for me - 82", which is pretty much what some measuring techniques outlined on the internet said it should be according to standing with my arm out stretched above and the top middle finger knuckle bends over the end, but when I talked to Superior on the phone and described my height and boat widths, they suggested probably 84" or 86". It seems pretty good size, so far, but a little longer may be a little better. I don’t see any opportunity to compare with any other size unless I buy another, which isn’t likely to happen real soon.
Isn’t off-set grip one of the promoted
benefits of a GP compared to a Euro?
I seem to remember it being promoted numerous times on p.net in GP discussions.
It may be bad form, but it sure is easy and low effort for turning, but just the reasons that you suggest - longer lever arm. I wouldn’t want to do it over any great distance, since I prefer balanced muscle effort over the course of the work out.
Yep
I do this all the time, working the GP around left to right by small amounts. I have one boat that doesn’t really respond to edging much, using an offset grip works well to make small continuous (almost automatic, really) course corrections.
advancing skills
Yanoer, I applaud you for trying to learn how to kayak, instead of just paddle.
There is more to kayaking than just forward strokes and you are exploring the possibilities.
Most kayaks that were designed to have a rudder however have a hull shape that does not reward edging.
If you have the opportunity try a good kayak that is known for its maneuverability and responsiveness when edged (often a hard chine hull). Your efforts will be rewarded and possibly you will have smile on your face.
Furthermore you won’t be totally a fish-out-of-water when the rudder on your kayak will malfunction. Too often I see paddlers fully dependent on their rudder and totally crippled if it no longer works.
The Epic 16X is VERY maneuverable
With the rudder u deployed. More so than my Eddyline Fathom LV.
It’s a fun boat.
maybe misunderstood
maybe I misunderstand maneuverability and responsiveness.
I call a boat maneuverable when I can turn it around fast (sweeping strokes) but I regard a kayak responsive when I edge it and it changes direction.
While I do have a very maneuverable kayak for example, nothing happens if I am cruising and I edge it; the hull is very round and not that wide (more like a log…).
My other kayak on the other hand is a bit wider and hard chine: if I edge that one it turns easier.
Not sure if your Epic has a hull that responds to edging?
It responds to edging.