GP questions

Sounds as if
a GP needs to be custom made for the paddler rather than purchased off the rack. Does boat width come into play as well?



PAKS does offer a couple of GP classes. Am guessing they’re BYOP events.



I’ve heard that Michael Gray is a fabulous chef and yes, the Michigan Training Camp is less than two hours away. I don’t want to get immersed, just acquainted. I think the folks at Quiet Water will help with that.



Thanks, Rich.

Euro sizing seemed complex to me.
It took me a few years to get the length, blade size & shape, weight & material combination correct for me.

Castoff,
the first thing I thought of when you mentioned a butterfly roll was bread.



Hadn’t heard of that one before and will definitely look it up.



Thanks for the kind words; very cool that you’re a flute player and a flutemaker!


2nd the Wind Swift. I also have a
shoulder that doesn’t like my Euro. The Wind Swift paddles like a Euro but has a narrow blade that is close to a GP.

2 x4 and width
Rival 51, I agree with your points, especially that weight of a GP is concentrated between the hands, so the paddles feels light.



Re width and 2 x 4 I should have been clearer that I’m referring to paddle carvers today who go to a big box store and buy a clear 2 x 4 to carve a paddle and think that maximum width is valuable. I wasn’t trying to suggest that traditional paddlers had any such thing.

For those who can lay hands on Harvey Golden’s “Kayaks of Greenland,” it’s interesting to look at the many different sizes and even shape variations among old paddles now in museum collections.



Sizing a GP is best done by borrowing and trying. Our local master carver, at Lumpy Paddles, has loaners for prospective buyers.

Thanks
I never though of myself as musical. My daughter plays the silver flute. But I stumbled by chance upon the Native American flute and it’s haunting sound. I was smitten. Was lucky to find a group that met every other month, and between the internet and the group learned how to make them and play them.



String came by and visited and liked what he saw so I made one for him. Burned dolphins and a loggerhead turtle on the one I made him. I usually carve an animal figure for the bird(the block that covers the external flue), but for String I mounted a Lettered Olive I found on a coastal island while kayaking. It is the SC state seashell. Next thing I know he gives me a GP he made. Amazing how things come together sometimes. I burned Beluga whales on one blade and a kayaker hunting Narwhal on the other.

GP blade width
You should be able to easily grip anywhere on the paddle including the blade area, if it’s too wide to grip easily it’s too wide for your hands.



Blade width isn’t needed, the blade is very long so has the same effective blade area as a euro paddle.



Bill H.

Lumpy
If you want the good stuff for a very reasonable price…



http://www.lumpypaddles.com/

That is a very good price,
from what I’ve seen strolling around the Internet. Hopefully the Qajaq folks will help me figure out the appropriate size next weekend.



Interesting back story about the Lumpy name. SandyBottom and KiwiBird are well known to anyone who follows the WaterTribe challenges.

If
Your not real short or really tall, or paddle a really wide kayak…then you will be fairly easy to size a paddle for…the extremes are where all that changes…the best method I know is to actually try several in your projected size and see what you actually like. All paddle-makers shape their paddles slightly different. that can change things too.



Good Luck



best Wishes

Roy



PS if you were closer…I would help with a few sizes to try.

5’5", 22.5" beam
That’s the boat’s beam, not mine. My next boat may have a slightly narrow beam, but not over 22". My Euro paddle is 210 cm.



Last year on a different GP thread you suggested an 84" paddle with a 19 or 20 inch loom, 3 1/4 to 3 3/8 inch max width for a paddler of similar height. I kept that reference.



Betsy Bay is about 100 miles away. That’s the only place I know of up here which may do demos.



In a perfect world there’d be a very large facility within reasonable driving distance where you could try any boat and paddle to your heart’s content.



Sometimes I daydream.




That
is a good place to start, as far as size goes. Betsy Bay paddles are cut in an older style than most Greenland Paddles on the market and built by home builders. It doesn’t have a lenticular face shape and does not respond to a canted stroke. The stroke used conforms more to that of a Euro or even an Aleutian paddle rather than other Greenland paddles.



Best Wishes

Roy



PS…there are many people in the northern part of Michigan {below the Bridge} that are using a GP…post on Q-USA site {qajaqusa.org} ask… there are also many in the UP

Betsy Bay paddles are GINO…

– Last Updated: Feb-28-16 9:11 AM EST –

...(Greenland In Name Only) and bear little resemblance to any paddles from Greenland. The same is true for the "knuckles scraping the deck" stroke that it commonly taught with them. Greenlanders don't paddle that way, although I did see one reference from a Greenlander to it being "a child's stroke".

The paddle design and stroke were developed by Doug VanDoren who promoted them heavily before interest in GPs really took off and Americans started going to Greenland and adopting their actual designs and techniques, which are now widely available and widely taught.

Yes
The Betsy Bay paddle is only Greenland in Name. The closest relation to an indigenous paddle that I have ever been able to find, is to that of the Copper Inuit.

Which is closely reminiscent to a Euro Blade also.



The Copper Inuit are a Canadian Inuit And Not Greenland Inuit.



The reason I liken these paddles to the Copper Inuit is

mainly because of the the long loom, where the hands are entirely on the loom and the flat blade faces.



otherwise it morphs from there.



Best Wishes

Roy

Scratched the idea.
Thanks for saving me a trip to Betsy Bay, Roy and Bnystrom.



As Rich posted earlier, Qajaq USA will be at Quiet Water next Saturday. No doubt I’ll get a good education there.

Hand size is important too
When you try out GPs be sure to focus for a while on how the loom feels in your hands. If too big, it will be tiring to your hands over a long paddle. My paddles have a loom circumference that is smaller than most, after my first paddle proved to be a bit too fat in the loom. Just a thought. And I second the recommendation of Lumpy paddles. I won one at a symposium to be made to my specs. Turned out great and is my favorite.

Appreciation that info, Ginger
I was going to measure the circumference of my Werner, which is quite comfortable to hold, and use that as a reference. Guess I shouldn’t?



Once I decide to buy one, it will be from Lumpy. His reputation seems stellar and his price reasonable.

That’s a place to start…
…but the shape of a GP loom isn’t round. It’s typically either slightly rectangular (1 1/2" x 1 1/4", for example) with rounded ends or completely oval. Here’s a links that shows examples of paddle designs from Greenland:



http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/Building/GailPaddles/GreenlandPaddles.html

And that shape is more comfortable . . .

– Last Updated: Feb-29-16 9:53 AM EST –

by far than the round shaft of a Euro -- at least to my hands. Also, the soft rectangle or oval also facilitates holding the paddle slightly canted for a better stroke -- you don't even have to think about it. The loom just mashes back into the web between thumb and fingers. Works for me; others' experience may differ.

Another GP vendor
I would also recommend paddles made by Thomas Moen in Oregon:

http://www.thomasboats.com



My experience dealing with him was superb. He helps with sizing/tailoring the paddle, makes the paddle on time, and responds to subsequent questions.