Greenland stick advice, suggestions

Sorry…

– Last Updated: Feb-14-06 5:51 AM EST –

There is definitely a "cult..." But to be fair, those of the "go native" crowd are not the only ones with that problem. It's endemic to the human condition where folks need to seperate into our "tribe" vs another.

One of the most vocal of "Go Native" cultist is that guy over the border who likes to cut holes in the ice barely big enough for his SOF. Seems kayaking (or is that just rolling) in iceholes makes him feel more "native."

Personally, I want to support the "cult of rebels." I got into kayaking to do something I want to do. Not to conform to some "in crowd" or "guru." If you see a buddha, kill him.

sing

yeah but…

– Last Updated: Feb-14-06 8:36 AM EST –

how many of the top greenland apologists in our country are cutting holes in ice to feel more "native"? The only group that comes to mind might be the Walden Pond Scum and I consider them mostly a social drinking club anyways. :) Actually even though they are ardent proponents of greenland style, they are still pretty openminded about kayaking.

Now who is this guy cutting holes in ice? I'm surprised I haven't heard of him since I'm pretty active on the QajaqUSA message board. Regardless if there is a "go native" cult somewhere (and I do know a couple folks like this), I don't see that in anyway representative of most traditional style paddlers and I find that mentality pretty lame.

too lazy?
In that case the GP is a crutch for you. The technique to roll with a GP and a Euro isn’t all that different except that the Euro requires a bit more precision in order to roll. Aquiring stronger rolling technique is always a good thing and I encourage you to keep working on rolling with the Euro paddle.

No More Tainting From Me…
let each experience and make judgements on their own. :slight_smile:



sing

yes don’t drink the coolade

I use a GP for the right reason
It pleases me.



Jim

Don Beale make 2 piece GPs

Use both, no worries.
I normally use a euro paddle and keep a homemade greenland storm paddle on the foredeck as a spare/backup/change of pace. The sliding stroke is very powerful, and the storm also works as a nice quiet single-blade for sneaking up on wildlife.



As the other folks have said, use what works for you, but keep an open mind. The more I learn the less I’m convinced that there’s a single “right” way to do anything.

more reasons to consider
"Whether paddling Euro or Gp, I like to use a GP as my spare paddle. the wood surface doesn’t scratch the deck, and why spend time assembling if you need your spare paddle, which by definition will mostly be in unexpected and possibly dire situations."



Peter, this is some of the reasoning that defintely attracts me to learning GP.



however, i may not have liked it in my brief stints, i have never said that it is the wrong way and that Euro is the right way. that’s why i’m here asking questions!

Before you give up on GP
Before you give up on GP, here is a goofy idea.



Try going out with just a canoe paddle (yes, really) for a few times. Enough to force your body way out of it’s comfort zone. Then try GP again, before you touch your Euro.



Old habits are difficult to un-learn.


backup

– Last Updated: Feb-14-06 12:47 PM EST –

The storm paddle on the foredeck works very well in that role -- I practice capsizing, dropping my euro paddle, and then rolling up with the storm. On the other hand, there are folks who do the same with half of a 2-part euro paddle.

You might actually want to start with a storm paddle instead of a standard GP -- the sliding stroke is *so* different that there'd be less to "unlearn".

The GP does take time to learn. It likes to be kept moving -- sculling is the heart of the recovery strokes. It'll make a ton of lift if you let it. I'm just starting to relax enough to feel what the paddle is telling me.

The different styles and tools all feed each other: touring, whitewater and surf; GP, wing and euro; kayak and canoe. I'm not very good at any of them, but it's rare to see me on the water without a smile.



New to GP
I’ve just carved my first three GPs (for a total of about $25). It took me two full paddling sessions to get used to the first one: after each session, I’d rework it, shaving a bit off the loom, playing with the oiling. That, to me, is the great advantage of GPs – being able to customize it to where you want. I took my euro out the other day and it felt powerful, but slightly hamfisted.



No preference at this point. Both designs definitely have their advantages. My only suggestion would be to give the GP more than 15-20 minutes. It took me several hours over two days to really get a sense of the rhythm/movement. Still working on it.

great point.
I actually recarved by first GP yesterday which was a trainwreck. I was about to throw it out when I decided that there might be a serviceable paddle hidden somewhere in there. After about an hour of recarving (took about 25% more wood off) and sanding, it’s super light and it feels much better. It has about two dozen knots in it so I’m sure it will snap into pieces eventually but I think I know how to carve a decent paddle now. Having my two Beale paddles on hand to compare it with did make it easier. Now if only I can find a good source of clear quartersawn WRC…

I do not use a GP
There are a variety of reasons. Probably most important is that I naturally have a slower cadence so a Euro paddle enables me to go at a decent pace at a comfortable cadence. As for minor reasons, to me what I might gain by learning to paddle with a GP is more than offset by the time and effort it would require that could be devoted to other things I care more about. To put it another way, learning to paddle with a GP solves no problem I have and would interfere with other things I want to learn.

Lots of good perspectives here.
What I can say is that learning with a GP has made me a better euro paddler also. I started out with a euro and more or less failed to learn to roll with one. I got a GP and spent two years with it almost entirely. I learned to roll with it, I am still learning better body english all the time, and because of this confidence I have recently been able to roll with a euro almost 100% on my on side. I actually learned the C to C with my GP first. I am a heckuva lot more comfortable and confident with a GP, but I plan on doing rivers and surfing too, so I want to know both. In fact, I plan to learn to roll with half a paddle, no paddle and eventually the Optio roll so I can get some wild shots of my buds on the water…How do you say “roll with camera” in Inuktitut? :wink:



Oh yeah, and paddling with the stick doesn’t make me feel like I just did ten rounds in the ring at the end of a long day.



Jim

I switch back and forth between a
single blade and a GP all the time. Both feel very comfortable to use. I never did get the storm paddle thing and it’s not traditional as many think, Greenlanders didn’t have spares.



Arctic paddlers of the west did however carry a single and a double (in general). They used a single blade for the most part and a double for going fast.

Think of it
as switching from right hand control to left hand control, and then to non-feathered with a euro. You are not going to become good at it in 15 minutes, but there is good purpose in doing it. Give it a few weeks and then throw it out if you don’t like it.

Storm Paddles
The “storm” paddles are certainly “traditional” but not their use as a spare.



Greenlanders in the past did not carry spares as all available room on deck was filled with hunting tools (spares are seen today in Greenland). That said, the short paddles that we call a “storm” paddle were used in some areas of Greenland as their one and only paddle. These were (and still are) used in areas of heavy weather as they offer less wind resistance than even a feathered paddle (no blade at all extends into the wind).



In this country we seem to settle on extremes – the longest and the shortest GPs. In Greenland paddles range in all sizes from a “regular” GP, and a “storm” paddle and all sizes in-between.



Greg Stamer

I Just Used One For The First Time
Someone had one at pool skool this evening and let me use it for a while. It tugged this way, then that way. Yuck. I could brace and roll with it, though.



You s’pose the appeal is the wood? The ‘native’ thang?

maybe…
but for many of us it’s simply how well the paddle functions rather than it’s history. The technique to use it is different from a Euro so I’m not surprised that you would not feel comfortable with it in the short time you played with one in a pool.