not trying to be argumentative…
By the way, I am not trying to be argumentative or to split hairs, just trying to point out that I think that I think it may be a bit unrealistic to rely on a half of a spare Euro to get you safely out of big conditions where there may be consequences.
But most people don’t often paddle in truly big conditions, so I guess it depends on where you paddle, etc.
Paddle breakage happens…
…particularly with cedar GPs. It only takes a flaw in the wood in the right place or a poor design to create a fragile paddle. With many peopled making their own GPs, there is a huge variation in the quality of materials, the design and the execution of the design. The most common errors are:
1- Using wood with flaws (grain runout, knots, splits, sap pockets) in high-stress areas (the entire loom to mid-blade)
2- Making the blades too thin. I’ve had the best results using a straight taper from tip to loom.
3- Making an abrupt transition in blade thickness at the shoulder, typically a result of #2
While none of the paddles I’ve made has broken, I’ve had two instances where the paddle was torn from my grasp in rough conditions (one in surf, one in a rock garden). In both cases, I was able to retrieve the storm, roll up, recover my regular paddle and get myself out of danger.
“big condition”
– Last Updated: Jul-31-12 10:41 AM EST –
"But most people don't often paddle in truly big conditions, so I guess it depends on where you paddle, etc. "
Define "big".
For me, if it's "big" for me, I wouldn't go out alone!
The kind of condition I DO go out alone, others might think it's "big" but it isn't for me. (I don't paddle in the winter. So I only have to contend with big wind and wave ;-] )
In other words, the definition of big condition is purely individual. For me, the definition of big is when I can't paddle out of using half a paddle!
That's why I don't carry secondary back up on top of a back up. If my backup plan isn't adequate, it's "too big" to go out alone!
"what if you capsize while the paddle is on your "off side" Yes you may be able to roll on your off side, but what about rolling on your offside with half a paddle....the half that is oriented for your onside. In otherwords rolling on your left side with a paddle blade that is meant to be used on the right side of the kayak. Much harder to do, especially in big conditions. Basically I would argue that 99% of people would not be able to do it in conditions."
I don't find the blade orientation particularly important. I've rolled with a backward paddle without even noticed it until I got up. So I doubt it matters if you grab the "wrong side" blade while upside down. But I'll give it a try the next time out. (this could be paddle dependent, mine was not too sensitive to being used backward)
Rolling in conditions are no particularly "harder" than flat condition. The real issue has more to do with getting up on the "wrong" side of the wave and fall back down. (and with being knocked over again even after fully up)
No worry about being argumentative. I think the points you raised are worth going over (especially on water). The clear message of this discussion I take away is, one should practice using one's chosen back up if it's different from one's primary paddle. If nothing else, one should know the limitation of one's back up paddle, and plan accordingly.
sp vs gp spare
Hello,
I’ve asked Bill of Lumpy Paddles to build a set of GPs for me and would like advice on a full-size vs a SP as a spare. Bill told me about this thread and it’s very helpful. He also made the very good point that it would be best to use whatever you are familiar with as a back-up in a critical situation.
I’m still leaning towards a SP and telling myself that I will commit to learning to use it if I go that route. I have almost no experience with a GP and have paddled with a Lendal for years. I paddle a Valley Anas Acuta and do a lot of fishing out of it in the Cedar Keys, FL area. I generally have a lot of stuff on both decks when I paddle. Despite years of paddling and being more proficient than most of the people I paddle with I would say my skill level is still intermediate. I can roll fairly reliably on my good side and less reliably on my off-side. I did some playing in the surf on the Atlantic side a few years back and decided it was not my cup of tea after seeing a bull shark suspended in a wave in front of me on the way out. I don’t plan in going out in conditions more than 10-15 knots, but have been caught enough times in much more severe conditions during storms to know that I need to be prepared for bad conditions.
I am considering the SP for the reasons already mentioned:
Stowability and accessibility.
Less wind resistance on the blade out of the water.
Varying the muscle groups used in paddling.
I would appreciate any thoughts, comments, or suggestions. Information about experiences with both types paddles in specific sea, wind, and current conditions would also be great.
Thanks,
Bob Reynierson
Greenland Storm Paddle
Thanks. I started this thread with my spare paddle question and all the posts got me thinking about a bunch more angles than I had considered.
I’m relatively new to kayak paddling, I’m rolling with a spotter during roll sessions, I’ve been to the ocean a hand full of times to play in the surf, I got slammed by a breaking wave while being sea sick and lost my paddle (my paddling buddy was there for a rescue), I’ve made my own Greenland paddle and I want to keep skill building. Wow, the spare paddle issue is something I need to figure out.
I’m going to practice with storm paddle.
Thanks again.
storm
I like the storm paddle as a “different gear” to work different muscles. Kept on the foredeck, it’s a good spare if I loose my main paddle, and is easy to roll with. I’ve also used it like a single-blade paddle with an in-water recovery for approaching wildlife – seems to spook critters less than having blades in the air.
Not essential, but not a bad thing to have in your toolbox.
What I Do
– Last Updated: Jul-31-12 5:27 PM EST –
I don't call it, nor think of it as a 'spare'. Like I said above, I carry two GPs; one with significantly less surface area than the other. When I turn into a stiff headwind I have a smaller 'gear' to use. I came into this kayak thing from a road bicycle background. My paddles are my big and little chainrings.
I guess some folks use the storm like a small chainring but I've never regretted going full sized.
If it was me, I'd ask Bill to make me a paddle; use it for awhile and decide if I like the loom, the feel of the shoulders, and the length. Then I'd put in an order for a Lumpy Low Gear, (or Lumpy Upwind). Tweak anything I want to regarding the loom or the feel of the shoulders but go two and a half to three inches shorter... thereabouts. Hell, you can cut it down yourself a bit at a time if you're handy.
storm paddle
Starting with the GP then placing a second order isn’t a bad idea. My only hesitation is that Bill has a waiting list and I’m ready to make a switch. Part of my plan has to do with using one paddle as an outrigger jammed under deck lines to stabilize the boat while fishing. Then I could use the SP to maneuver the boat with one hand. The outrigger set-up should also be handy if I want to get out and wade-fish an area with lots of oyster rocks. I could get out in deeper water fairly easily and not have to worry about dinging up the hull.
I carry a storm paddle spare
I carry the storm paddle as a spare but I also practice with it including rolling with just the storm paddle on the deck. It’s good to be able to deal with a lost paddle during a capsize.
I love the little thing and I made mine too light which also makes it really easy to use. I need to make a better one that won’t be so breakable.
Dave
Skiding stroke ok for me
I forgot to mention that I like the sliding stroke and find that it doesn’t take took much extra energy. In fact, with a lighter than normal storm paddle saving some energy because of it’s low weight, the sliding stroke just puts me back at a normal exertion level.
I would rather paddle with a sliding stroke for a mile or two than paddle with half of a euro paddle while waiting to find some calm to put the halves together.
But I am not a bigot and only use the GP because I made it and I like the cool show-off factor of it 
Dave
GP + SP or GP
My main paddle is an 86" CF Novorca GP, my Euro is a 210cm CF Werner Cypress, and my ‘storm paddle’ is a 72" laminate spruce Wolfgang Brinck with CF reinforced tips (but its bladesare equivalent to an 88" paddle). Each of them has a totally different feel, and I like/dislike each for totally different reasons.
I’ll carry the Euro or the storm as a backup or alternate, based on conditions and what I want to get out of the day. Based on real-world events, I’ll never be without a spare or alternate paddle unless I’m in the surf zone…I’ve had and seen enough paddle breakages here on the Left Coast to not be without.
I, too, find the sliding stroke to be relaxing, and the wooden storm paddle isn’t as sharp as the Novorca, making it nicer to slide with. Having alternate paddles does break up monotony of crossings!
I do find, however, that if I lose my paddle because of conditions, instead of stupidity or poor grip or dealing with a rescue, that bracing on opposite sides with a storm paddle takes a wee bit longer reaction time than I’m currently comfortable with…but, I don’t have to piece it together to use it. It’s all about the tradeoffs.