Tend to agree
I see it used regular and often in training, particulaly in rough water. I think alot of coaches will go directly to hand-of-god or some version thereof (two rescuers can really make it work) rather than a bow rescue, particularly if they are dealing with someone they don’t know or are unaware. A really good option for someone that stays in the boat with a neo skirt to get them back in the game fast.
I will also say I haven’t seen it used on tours. Most guests will be mostly out of the boat before they hit the water. Those that aren’t will usually pull off the nylon skirt in the flip and literally fall out of the boat. The key to having a small person execute is to get the victim as flat on the deck as possible and then drive their boat down and under to use the bouyancy of the boat to help rotate rather than brute force. This can be a hard rescue if you have a hefty victim.
HOG for real?
Interesting. Why would someone not wave their arms for a bow rescue if they are conscious? Why would anyone stay upside down in a kayak if they aren't unconscious and not wet exit. When you say you saw it used three times, were they unconscious each time? I could imagine someone could get trapped and not be able to release the spray skirt, but there would be a lot of thrashing around and they would be grabbing for anything they come in contact with and trying to swim up. I've seen that once. Scary.
The HOG rescue is good to know and practice but I know many smaller woman paddlers who have good skills that would not be able to pull up a big guy. Like one person said, If you can get the head up, you can save their life - maybe. An actual unconscious paddler is a lot different than a paddler pretending. I found that grabbing the PFD top shoulder area (like Suzzane said) and pulling while pushing down on the kayak helps. It makes a good handle to grip. I try to pull the victim back on the back deck as I do it. You also have to remember, many boats have high back decks and you may not be able to get the victim on the back deck.
Of course
It would be a pleasure.
…and I’ll teach you how to eat Beanee Weenees and paddle 40 miles a day.
BTW Just between you and me, BBQ is BBQ no matter what others say.
Paddlin’ on
G_K
In 2 circumstances the paddlers
were having orientation problems with the paddle, attempting to roll. The first scenario was in a very big water ocean cape and the surge was against the sea stacks. There was no time to sort that paddle out before a set came in and cleaned house on everybody. Most retreated and a lady presented her stern for something for him to grab onto and snap up. Another guy just reached down, snatched him and said, “MOVE.”
The second scenario was down a high volume class 2+ rapid and the same old blade “unawareness” issue came in and before the gal crashed and burned for the lead in to a class 4 rapid another gal snatched her up and they grabbed an eddy.
The 3rd event was when a guy failed his roll attempt and waited there with his hands out but a bow rescue attempt put the bow too far forward(3 foot chop), his hands went under trying to find the first bow, but another came along the hull and grabbed him up the HOG way as he was down maybe 8-9 seconds.
I’m not saying this is the be all and end all rescue but it kept 3 people in their boats where 2 of them for certain would have been screwed if they came out. This is a rescue that takes 5 minutes to learn, might provoke you to paddle closer to someone who is at their limit to effect it. Smaller people trying it out on larger people will certainly have more trouble, however, they will just as often be trying it out on folks that are medium to small than large to XL.
Dogmaticus
The bow roll rescue – anybody try it?
It was explained in some detail in Sea Kayaker last October. See http://tinyurl.com/44eap8. Sounds like a reasonable alternative to HOG.
I have tried it on the lawn, and it seems to work nicely, but have not had a chance yet to practice it on the water. It does have some subtleties.
yes, i have
and on folks larger than me. there are some.
with a larger vic, it’s doable if they hug the deck and actually pretty easy on someone smaller regardless…the challenge then is to keep them upright and not just toss them back over the top into the drink.
on the whole, i don’t like it but hey, it’s another trick/tool.
My take on these…
... out side of dedicated practice sessions (where it's all good), is I'll either be back up on my own or already out of the kayak and on to other things before someone would be in place to perform either on me (or me on them) - outside of cases of unconsciousness.
Otherwise, I'm not going to spend ANY time hanging out upside down waiting on someone, and hope others first line of defense isn't built around waiting on me (I'll gladly lend an assist of your roll fails, or happily take one if mine does, but I won't be a substitute for it and don't expect anyone else to be either).
" bull shit"? very easy rescue to do
I'm no superman but did it the first time with no big effort--and have done it every time since but only in practice situations where the rescuees stayed in the boat--- The problem with the HOG is that most people who go over in any real life situations either roll the boat or exit it(perfectly natural instinct when you can't breath)--I've not seen anybody wave their hands and hold their breath for a rescue--if your buddies do that, all the more power to them but most people do not. Your experience is the exception to the general rule.
And given the fact that you have been paddling umpteen million years and have seen it only used for real three times should tell you something---how many times have you seen people roll or do reentry and roll, or other types of assisted rescues---
The point of HOG is…
… not for experienced paddlers, but for novices who can’t get out of the skirt for some reason. It ~has~ happened.
Well, not true, really. Anybody, regardless of experience, can end up unconscious or physically incapable of doing a wet exit. It just takes a bonk in the head from a rock, a spearing in the chest by a bow, a heart attack, seizure or some other medically significant event. The idea is to prevent being upside down in a kayak from sealing the fate of someone who might otherwise be treatable and recover.
ditto nm
The 1% doctrine
I’ve learned something over the years about all the little things one does to make something positive happen versus the “one” thing. This is like a series of 1%'s versus a solo move of 100% to achieve a desired outcome. Knowing how to do a HOG is 1% or less, but it is something. Instead of just writing something off and calling it an exception to the “general rule” just realize that it can be effective, unless you’ve closed your mind off. I’ve seen and performed all kinds of other different rescues, self recoveries and there are usually days where none of that happened. It would be unusual to see or do a HOG. But on the days those were performed they came in quite useful. I was glad there were 3 people who spent that 5 whole minutes learning the skill and a paddling life of years unsubscribing from the nonsense that gets paraded around in kayaking circles. It is a skill low on the totem pole, easy to learn and once in awhile useful. It is less than 1%, but it is something.
Dogmaticus
The rescue isn’t necessarily for you
it’s dead useful for people who go unconscious from lack of oxygen, or who get bonked on the head and knocked out.
They may not be waiting for you, but they need you.
Certainly it isn’t something you will need 99% of the time.
However I’ve used it on someone who got disoriented and stuck.
I’ve also seen someone use it on a very experienced paddler at a symposium who had an asthma attack during a rolling contest.
Don’t rule it out.
yep
you’re right—but then I know how to do the HOG and found it very easy to learn—the OP did not and for those 1% of the times where a HOG could be used, if she doesn’t want to spend the time learning(more than 5 minutes because for her its difficult) she can just reach down and pop the rescuees skirt and then grab a wrist and haul them out. Doesn’t mean she shouldn’t try to learn it–I just wouldn’t worry too much if I couldn’t do one.
I wouldn’t worry about it too much
either. There are other things like bridging the capsized hull with a paddle shaft and over your own deck. Grab the wrist and place on shaft as you mentioned. It’s worth knowing, for sure, but as I said, it’s kinda like a 1% thing. (Or less.)
Dogmaticus