helmet Safety

good question…
to me, one follows the other and in reading the gents post seemed like it was legislation requiring use but perhaps he is only speaking of manufacturing standards

You cant with those materials
I want helmet legislation to make helmet companies build safer helmets. Not for people to wear helmets. Most whitewater kayakers already wear helmets. Most companies already make EXCELLENT helmets I just think PE helmets flex too much.

Wrong approach
"…I just think PE helmets flex too much…"



I could build a stiff PE helmet and a flexible fiberglass one. I could build a perfectly rigid helmet that was completely unsafe. A softer helmet can be safer depending on the type of impact.



Specify what you want the helmet to do. Come up with test procedures and specifications for penetration resistance, impact absorbtion, coverage, retention, durability, etc., and then let the designers figure out the best materials.

Exactly
As an example - Safety glasses per OSHA have to meet the ANSI Standard Z81 - - - Which refers to test procedures and properties of the ‘glass components’



Hard Hats fall under similar characteristics based on usage and Enviroment conditions.



In some cases materials may be specified, but more likely material characteristics are indicated.



Additionally - -

OSHA doesn’t write code

ANSI doesn’t design

ISO doesn’t design

CSA doesn’t design



and so on.


When the Coast Guard stepped in and
imposed their standards on PFDs, it set innovation back at least a decade. Even now, the Coast Guard presence keeps small innovators from offering new, innovative PFDs to the market.



Now, you want to do the same thing for whitewater helmets. This, even though there is NO agreement on how WW helmets ought to perform.



The number of deaths due to insufficient helmet protection has been rather small, with the role of the helmet hard to establish. You’ll find that out in your research, but that won’t stop you.



After all, as you say, if bicycle helmets are subject to regulation, why shouldn’t whitewater helmets be subject to regulation? And elbow pads, and grab loops, and spray skirts?



IN ORDER TO SHOW THAT YOU HAVEN’T ALREADY MADE UP YOUR MIND (evidence be damned), state what reasonably expectable findings would cause you to conclude that whitewater helmet construction should NOT be regulated.

How about the right to wear non-standard
helmets or PFDs?



I pointed out to a DNR ranger that all the slalom kayakers on the Chattahoochee are wearing non-Coast Guard PFDs. This upset him, and he said he would issue citations.



I pointed out that I own one of those non-standard PFDs, and that it is quite effective for a swim in whitewater. Racers wear them because they are much lighter, less restrictive, and more comfortable for extreme maneuvers than even “rodeo” PFDs.



He said we didn’t need to WEAR an approved PFD as long as we had an approved PFD in the boat.



I said that racers weren’t going to carry a 2 pound PFD in their boats that they would not have when racing, though they would cheerfully wear their racing PFDs.



But he was not to be persuaded. The “law” was that a Coast Guard approved PFD had to be aboard. This is the sort of nonsense that occurs when a government agency sets standards for paddlers’ safety devices.

I think I am changing my mind
Intsead of legislation I think there should be a Industry standard

This is exactly what Snell does
They started with motor sport helmets, but have branched to cover many types of helmets over the years.



They have also been successful in creating both industry and consumer awareness, which has led to consumers looking for the Snell rating on helmets, and manufacturers volunarilly designing helmets to meet the Snell performance requirements.



The question to ask is: “Why doesn’t Snell develop a standard for water sport helmets.”

The nice thing about an “industry
standard” is that the sponsoring agency can change or upgrade it in the face of new data and construction methods.



If you go over to Boatertalk and search for helmet discussions, you will see that there are still strong differences of opinion on what kinds of hits a helmet has to handle, and on what kinds of shells and liners are most appropriate. Unfortunately it is not possible to handle all levels of blow severity with equal effectiveness. Another problem is that some hits are like slamming your head into a flat wall, while others may involve more of a point impact. Real-life hits are a mixture.



One of the first goals might be to determine what is the maximum weight helmet most steep creek paddlers are willing to wear. No point in setting a standard that leads to helmets no one will wear.



In 34 years of whitewater, I have never struck my head in a way that my “inferior” PROTEC helmets could not handle with ease. But I am willing to wear a better helmet if it is comfortable and does not weigh a lot. I was a motorcyclist, never rode without a helmet, but heavy helmets are more tolerable on motorcycles.

Cycling Helmets
I think you should look at how the cycling helmet manufacturers went about standardizing helmets. I don’t think you should force paddlers to wear helmets, but it would be nice that they were standardized. I know a lot of novice whitewater paddlers just buy the cheapest helmet they can find, which are normally the the cheap plastic helmets you are referring to.



One of my pet peeves with helmets is that they don’t really design them to fit small heads. I never have a problem replacing my cycling helmets. I have a 6 year old helmet that probably needs replacement, but I can’t find an adjustable helmet that fits my head correctly. Why is it the ww helmet manufacturers don’t get a clue about this??? I have gotten some of my female friends into whitewater paddling and we had the hardest time finding helmets to fit them.

Bike helmet info
http://www.bhsi.org/

Don’t Standardize the River!
Standards for paddlers? Which paddlers? River paddlers? Is this for any paddler in a whitewater boat, or just for certain types of rivers? What about Class I whitewater, do I need a helmet for that? You could require helmets for Class II or III or above, but that changes too. Yesterday the river was Class II but after the rain last night it is Class III. And what if I am only paddling certain parts of the river? What if I am tubing the river, do I need a helmet for that?



Personally I go to the river to get away from other people’s standards! (And I do wear a helmet when appropriate!)

Devils advocate
What about the logic that it IS society’s risk, not just yours. If you suffer a catastrophic head injury, and become a traumatic brain injury victim, either in a vegetative or very impaired state, society has to pay for your decision. In a very real sense, we ALL have to pay for someones poor decision. In the form of higher health care costs, insurance costs, welfare and medicaid costs, ad nauseum. Makes sense?

jamie, they don’t make them for
fat heads either.

There ought to be a law
…against laws that infringe on the rights of the citizens. Oh, yeah, there is the constitution but I’m pretty sure it’s since been repealed.



3hrTour

For someone that claims…
…they’re not a troll, you’re sounding more and more like a shill who’s bought into all the WRSI BS.



If you want to create a standard, that’s fine, but once that’s done, the only thing that should matter is if the product meets the standard. What it’s made out of is irrelevant.

Helmet is good for head.
I have cause gellcoat on a kevlar to completely pop off on one hit and spider crack the rest of that side. I have also cut through a plastic protec and ripped a hole in a wildwater helmet. I personally wear a helmet everywhere I go including ocean waves and busy interstate drives.

Laws on the mater are great for commercial rafting companies and any company bringing people out into water rocky and fast enough to cause someone to “fall out” or “tip over”. All of the companies I know of have these rules in place. However everyone else should just have enough sense to wear them when they should! A law on the helmets may open more doors for more laws… let’s not go there!