There you go. In the side picture it’s the solo boat on top. I’m not sure if you can tell from the picture, but to provide room for a person to sit, cockpit material is added on that’s far wider than the hull.
It must be quite a feeling to row that thing!
Hi Packymn: Scott here, president of Eddyline. You’re fortunate to be choosing between two good boats and two good brands! I have the utmost respect for Delta’s products. There are tradeoffs in the design choices our companies have respectively made. Of course, I’d be honored if you selected Eddyline but honestly you can’t go wrong with a Delta either. If you choose an Eddyline I’ll commit that me and my team have your backs to support you in your adventures. Best of luck and reach out if I can be of assistence. Scott at Eddyline dot (you know the rest) 
Been nothing but pleased with my Eddyline Sitka, a hardchined boat with great glide and secondary stability. I haven’t paddled a Delta personally, but Craig on Adventure Otaku has a video on his Delta. Craig’s YouTube channel is just one of a few I enjoy to follow. I follow the Headwaters Kayak channel as well for boat and gear reviews.
@packymn I have no experience with Delta, but used to own an Eddyline Fathom. I had major problems with the seat pan cracking (the Sitka uses same seat design, very thin plastic) and providing less support on my right side. This caused me an enormous amount of lower back pain before I figured out what was happening. Eddyline always replaced the seat (they do have wonderful customer service), but they always cracked again. One of the seats even broke on its first outing. As a relatively new paddler at the time, I considered giving up kayaking because the pain became so excruciating. The seat design is also prone to slipping if you really press on the foot pegs. The seat honestly seemed like an afterthought given that the rest of the boat was relatively well built.
Once I started paddling in rougher water I found the Eddyline hatches to be fairly leaky. On the plus side, they are common across a few different makes of kayaks and readily available through Sea-lect if you lose one. Delta uses a proprietary hatch system, and this gives me pause because there are 3 parts to the hatches: the hatch itself, the seal, and the shock cord that helps keep it in place. I see that as more points of failure vs a single solid piece o’ rubber. When I’m looking at boats for myself, a proprietary hatch system is usually a deal breaker.
Personally, I’ll never buy another Eddyline until they address the seat setup, it’s awful. On the same note, I’ll likely never buy another thermoformed boat because there are so many other options out there in the rotomolded or composite realm that are simply better designed and offer higher performance. Don’t get lured by the claim of lighter weight. My Fathom weighed 10 lbs more than advertised, just 2lbs less than my 17’9”fiberglass Cetus MV. Individual kayaks often vary widely from the manufacturer’s listed weight.
To me it makes more sense to buy a good used composite in the same price range, or buy a nice rotomold boat and maybe have money left over for a nice PFD and paddle or tent or whatever gear you need. If the composite boat doesn’t work out, you should be able to get your money back on the used market. I sold my Fathom and replaced it w/ a used P&H Cetus MV (much longer than what you are looking for) and used Wilderness Systems Tempest 165 and haven’t looked back. I paid less for both boats combined than I paid for my Fathom and don’t have issues w/ back pain anymore. As a bonus, both boats blow the Eddyline out of the water (pun intended) in terms of performance and handling.
Delta, Eddyline and Hurricane are really the only options in the thermoform game, so if youre only looking at those brands you’re really limiting yourself in terms of designs to choose from.
For the uses you are describing I’d look at something like a P&H Virgo HV, P&H Leo, P&H Delphin, Dagger Stratos 14.5, and even the Tempest series from Wilderness Systems if you can find space to store them.
Doing 3 day trips in a 14 ft boat seems unrealistic to me, but where I typically paddle I have to take all of my drinking water and that weight/space adds up quickly.
Whatever route you go, find an American Canoe Association (ACA) or British Canoe Union (BCU) instructor and get some lessons (self-rescue and proper technique) before you go attempt anything wild and crazy in your new boat! Even better, maybe find one near you right now and ask their advice on what a good boat would be. The instructors I know universally dislike thermoformed boats because according to them they break most often in their classes.
Holy cats…That’s not a kayak. It’s a tight wire.
Hi,
Both are great boats. I have been in each. I have a Delta 14 with skeg. At 45 pounds it is easily lifted onto the car. Tracking is fantastic without the skeg. I purchased the hip pads from the place I bought it. Not quite as fast as the Sitka but I was more interested in the weight due to a shoulder issue. Hope this helps.
Ken
Thanks CapeFear! I did notice that the delta is widest about where the seat is, or maybe a little behind it. The Eddyline was widest about the middle of the cockpit. I’m guessing this influences the tracking also? I.e. how much of the hull is operating in the mode of “pushing through the water” vs how much is isn’t. (Forgive my poor understanding—there probably is some technical term for this and I don’t know it).
Also guessing the chine may have more effect on turns and edging…a harder chime sort of “carving more”?
Great perspective! And yes, especially at my (low) skill level there probably is little difference if any. Dimensions are very similar. If there is any difference, I probably couldn’t detect it. I was leaning toward the delta primarily due to the storage space and cost (not seeing the additional $600 worth of benefit in the Eddyline). A few folks have pointed out the combing on the delta and it’s giving me pause. A skirt seems like a good addition for longer trips and variable conditions, and I don’t want to be fighting to make it work. And while the additional storage on the delta would be nice, as long as the eddyline has enough storage for say, a few day trip, that is all I need. Minor thing, but the skeg control and seat back adjustment seem to be nicer on the eddyline. The bare rope lines on the delta are certainly a no frills implementation. So now leaning a bit toward the Eddyline.
Ha! Thanks rsevenic! Sounds eerily similar to my archery career!
Wow Scott, I for one am impressed you’d go that extra mile and chime in. Kudos to you and to Eddyline as a whole.
I do ask that you address the seat issues I have personally dealt with in my friend’s Sitka and also have read and heard about in other people’s Fathoms. My Fathom was made in 2001 (I believe) and the adjustable seat pan was not used in that kayak. It’s actually a better system then what my friend Sig has. He complains it moves and when I used his kayak for an afternoon I found it did the same for me. Especially in doing rolls. Mine on the other hand is a delight to paddle. Some other, better way of securing the seat pan is really needed badly on those kayaks. And perhaps doubling up the thickness of the pan and bonding them together would help those that say it’s easy to crack. Laminate a 2nd layer, or maybe just make a pan stronger from scratch… but something to cure that problem is needed.
My wife is an engineer and works at Legacy Molding in Riverton Wyoming and she has a great deal of knowledge about plastic molding processes. She has told me about the cost of forms and molds and it’s a bit staggering so I do understand why you folks can’t just make a whole new kayak on a whim. But that said, and speaking for myself, I do believe there may be an opportunity that is being overlooked.
When we look at US made and/or sea/touring kayaks easily available in the USA the supply is getting quite small. Rec Kayaks, Fishing kayaks, WW kayaks and stand up paddle boards are certainly outselling true sea-worthy touring kayaks, but because the other companies (Necky/Old Town, Dagger, Hurricane, Perception, and a few others) are dropping the hard -core ocean kayaks from their lines, it may be the time to reconsider making something to directly compete with what’s made in the UK and Europe as well as perhaps Australia. Not that hard core Ocean/Touring kayaking is on a comeback at this time in the USA, but because the supply is now seeming to drop below the demand, I think it would be worth while to reconsider 1-3 new kayaks that could compete on a basis of “mission statement” with the kayaks made by Rebel, NDK and other makers who do cater to such demands and clientele.
There is a real possibility that THE reason high performance ocean kayaking is not more popular is NOT the lack of interest but the lack of such kayaks that can be afforded by the largest majority of those that would otherwise be very interested in them.
A $3000-$3400 kayak that can be used for the extreme touring/ocean crown would probably sell like drinks in the desert where a $5000 to $6500 kayak is simply to high for most people to afford.
Said in fewer words: Such use is NOT because of lack of interest but probably for lack of affordability. I think Eddyline could be the answer to that dilemma if your choose it to be.
I make flintlock rifles to earn my living. Flintlocks are WAY less in demand as compared to bolt action hunting rifles and ARs but because there are so few gunsmiths making guns as they were made in the mid 1700s, and doing it to a high level of quality, I have run back-logs from 6 to 8 years long and done so for 35 years. Supply and demand are always the things that makes a product worth making — or not worth making. Demand for high grade flintlock arms is statistically low but those gunsmiths that can supply them is even lower so that statistically low demand made me a very secure living for many years.
I believe a REALLY GOOD line of “hard-core sea kayaks” priced as a thermo-formed kayak can be priced would dominate the US market by a noteworthy percentage. There are several other companies making them today (Fiberglass and Composites) but nearly all are priced at a level that is out of reach for what I am guessing is about 75%-80% of the potential market.
In the USA today I believe there are fewer hard core ocean touring kayaks available than the potential demand can be filled up by — at price point most can afford. Eddyline seems to be the logical company to fill such a void.
I may be wrong, but I do believe my point may be well worth considering before it’s rejected.
Looking at the NDK and other imports (some very hard to get, and most being very expensive) and going head to head with them for the lions share of the American market seems like an idea that may have merit.
A thermo-formed kayak that duplicates their features head to head and could be made for a lower cost then a fiberglass or composite kayak and sill be capable of performance very near their equal.
And learn from the mistakes of others as much as you learn from those in the history of Eddyline. Some of the roto-molded British kayaks have a separate combing molded much like what is used on fiberglass kayaks and those are then attached to the roto-molded decks so you get great seals and holding of the skirt, and yet at a much lower price point than buying a fiberglass of composite kayak. Delta should have caught on to that little detail. (Eddyline has no such complaints about it’s combings so I am just using that as an illustration, not a criterium)
In the USA today dedicated Ocean kayakers that want a top preforming sea kayak are at a loss for a lot of boats to choose from. If Eddyline was to step up, I think your company would own a very large share of that market and the fact that WW and fishing kayaks are top sellers no way diminished the fact that if the demand is a bit lower then the supply for high end sea kayaks. It may be worth the effort and the case invested to fill that void.
And maybe not…
…but what I am certain of is that such consideration is at least worthy of market research.
Wow, @Scott-Holley thank you for reaching out! And you certainly do make a beautiful product. Doing a lot of reading and watching videos and the Fathom seems to be the measuring stick for thermoformed boats. Great to see you active in the community and appreciate you taking the time to check in and help. It seems like I can’t go wrong here, but maybe just a little “more right”
No kidding! Filing that’s under “wanted to see how far we could take it”
Thank you Ken!
Go for the Eddyline, they are better kayaks. $600 is a small price to pay for the better product. The reason the Delta has a rudder and the Eddyline has a skeg is the Delta needs a rudder and the Eddyline only needs a skeg. Better hull design. I have owned both and currently now only own Eddylines and Pygmys.
I often hear kayakers saying that. I have no reason to challenge your statement, but I haven’t ever found a need to use a spay skirt, because I only go out up to small craft warnings. I’ve dropped weight, which means I no longer overlload my 145 Tsunamnd by 30 lbs. Although I would get an occasional splash of water on my kidneys, that isn’t enough to make me reach for a spray skirt, especially when water temps are typically between 75° and 82°. I simply never felt the need. I respect your judgement, so tell me what I’m missing.
I often get the feeling that I’m being chastised for venturing into a supermarket without a surgical mask, or does it just depends on who I talk to.
The more I read about other kayaks, the more I value and appreciate my old model 145 Tsunami.
This is the problem with purchasing from REI. Did they not tell you that the Delta 14 is available with a skeg?
I did ask that. Per the salesperson they can’t order any option available at the manufacturer. They only have certain ones they stock and that’s it. So if it were to be the delta 14 w/ skeg it would have to be elsewhere.
Hi, just saw this thread.
My spouse and I began kayak-camping on Georgian Bay in 2005; we rented from outfitters on Georgian Bay for the first two years - these were not Deltas or Eddyline.
In 2007 we were ready to buy and after spending a long w/e test paddling about a dozen various makes and models we bought Delta 15.5’s (rudder) and two years later added Delta 12.10’s (no rudder or skeg) for paddling on small streams in Florida. We have now paddled for years extensively on Georgian Bay and in Florida.
As we gained experience edging we realized we didn’t need the (slower) 12.10’s and sold them and then a few years later we treated ourselves and sold the 15.5’s and ‘upgraded’ to Delta 16’s (rudder) which are 2” narrower and have a different hull profile than 15.5’s and edge and handle better and are noticeably faster for the same effort.
From our experience selling the Deltas we can say that they maintain their value very well
We have no experience with Eddyline but have heard positive comments.
We have been very pleased with all of our Deltas.
These kayaks are well designed, comparatively light and the purchase prices are competitive.
The Deltas have thermoformed hulls that are strong and rigid but are NOT intended for white water - use polyethylene hulls if you’re into running rapids.
The Delta 14 is 3 lbs lighter but 1.5” wider than the Delta 16. A friend paddles a Delta 14 and it is slower for the same effort (2 feet shorter and 1.5” wider).
A skeg ‘consumes’ a lot of storage space in the rear hatch so if carrying gear is important go with a rudder. Except in crosswinds we rarely put the rudder down.
In our experience paddling on big waters such as Georgian Bay a skirt is a necessity - we tuck them behind our seats and put them on without going to shore if/when the waves build. It’s an ‘interesting’ experience the first few times a large wave washes over the deck of your kayak!
Enjoy!
I agree with Ray. Although rolling is a very valuable skill to learn - rolling alone isn’t the only reason to use a spray skirt (by any means, IMHO). In rough water, without a skirt, waves can easily dump water into your cockpit. Without a skirt, drips off of your paddle and/or rain will enter the cockpit - which can make you cold and wet. Of course you can dress for the sun - but a skirt keeps your thighs from sunburn if you’re wearing shorts.
*** Safety Comment ***
Of course if you are not able to roll you should have a well-practiced wet exit strategy before using a skirt IMHO.
