Okay To Be Passionate…
but one size doesn’t fit all. Personal style, venues, etc. determine which type of equipment to favor.
I mostly use a Euro blade these days (surf, ww). I’ve carved about dozen of the GPs and gave 'em mostly away 'cept one. I have one and use that when I go out on laidback easy paddles.
Most folks talk about GP’s advantages as helping with rolling and lack of confusion over indexing. I can see that for some folks. Frankly, I don’t find any problems with rolling – either side – with my Euro’s, nor confusion about indexing. It’s matter of getting used to and being confident with whatever you choose to use.
sing
Thanks Rex, but I am just to happy and
stubborn to change.
Hey, I am not sure if you know about it, but there is a race coming up in your neck of the woods on Sept. 26.
The 2009 Triangle Paddlefest at Lake Crabtree county Park in Morrisville.
Last year there were kayaks up the kazoo.
Cheers,
Jack
GP’s and rolling
– Last Updated: Sep-18-09 12:09 PM EST –
FWIW, the only roll that I can argue is easier to learn with a GP is a layback. I have found that the forward finishing rolls with a GP to be on the tricky side - any small misalignment and you're not coming up. Maybe I am uniquely untalented at this though.
But the layback roll is what most people start with using a GP, so this is not a problem. I could be convinced that a sweep to C, more centered roll using a foam core Euro is easier to learn than many of the fancier GP rolls.
Thanks
If I’m not up in the mountains I might give it a shot. I got an invitation to spend some time up near Boone.
Euro paddles for sale
I am now selling my Werner paddles: Cyprus, Camano and Shuna.
Why?
Switched to traditional paddles and not looked back.
Admittedly I prefer the Aleut paddle (a bit different than the GP) and no longer use my Werner foam core ones.
I will keep the Athena because it’s a split shaft that I can carry as emergency spare.
Surfing with a GP?
Oh yeah! as good as with Cyprus; just modify your stroke rate and timing.
After a two week trip I know that Aleut paddles are here to stay.
Speed? in a sprint I loose out in the first couple of seconds but after that the particuler kayak you paddle will determine hull speed (and no matter what you can’t go past that with ANY paddle). Just for giggles, try paddling with a broomstick. Surprisingly you will achieve good speed, it might take a little while but it will work.
For more details on the Aleut paddle
http://gnarlydognews.blogspot.com/2009/09/aleut-paddle-by-vanstix.html
Like I Said…
it’s pretty individual… one person’s panacea is another’s poison.
What’s funny here is how some folks like/need to aggressively push their panacea/poison on someone else.
The sects and cults of PNet.
sing
These people are nuts
– Last Updated: Sep-17-09 9:09 PM EST –
(except Melissa)
You want a WING paddle.
I was going to try a GP once but there really is no need. I'm a wing man.
Maybe when I get old and my joints are a concern ;-)
I never owned
a high quality euro blade so I really don’t have a point of reference to compare. What I do know is I spent far less on a custom made for me GP than I would have for a high end euro blade.
I’m not passionate about my Lumpy but the maker became a good friend and mentored me into a roller and far better paddler than I was prior.
For me it is the way the wood feels in my hand as opposed to something off the shelf. I like the way a subtle movement in the blade angle gives “me” the (illusion) of control and contact with the water.
Mostly it just feels right and reminds me of being a kid riding down to Myrtle Beach in my mom’s 71 Buick Riviera. Not sure what was under the hood but it was fast and CCR was wide open on the 8 Track. I would always have my arm out the window and tilt my hand up and down feeling the wind lift like a wing on a plane…
It’s some geeky science I’m told but I really don’t care. I will be happy to get wood as long as I can without modern science 
belles, so no
"blue" pills, err paddles for you?
Love it…
Sea Alice : )
To second this point:
All GPs are not carved equal. They may look similar, but will perform as differently from one another as all the various Euros do.
Many will tell you to just carve one (cheap, easy, and all that) but I would advise against it for a first GP. Buy, or try to borrow one that’s as close to being sized for you as possible.
If you dig a little deeper into the few stories of folks not taking to them, a good many are self carved or made for them by “woodworker” friends with little or no GP exposure/use (and no other GP paddlers around for tests, comparisons, tips, etc.). Some get lucky or have a feel for it and do OK (available plans instructions are good and get you 95% there), but it figures that some of these might not be the best paddles, and hard to blame “GPs” in general for any less than optimal results they may get with them.
They’re not particularly hard to make. It’s just that, as Carl said, the little things matter - A LOT. Difference can be as much as between your foam core Werner and a couple pieces of plywood tacked to a broom handle.
It’s hard to beat a paddle carved by someone with thousands of miles on them and who has seen/used examples by a lot of other makers. The subtle shape differences will have you seeing the benefits a lot more clearly (and have better resale - though you don’t see a lot of used GPs for sale which should tell you something), and can serve as a decent benchmark for your own carving efforts later.
One other small point, they were developed for use in fairly narrow kayaks. They work well with typical sea kayaks (and even better with narrower/more LV designs including of course Greenland style skinboats), but there are diminishing returns with wider beamed vessels (rec kayaks, canoes). I’d stick to lollipops for those. GPs are very versatile, but nothing is optimal for everything.
BTW - I used to love my big blade Werner too, but that seems like a long time ago now. Went to GPs and didn’t look back, and now to Aleuts and beyond too. Don’t own any EPs anymore - but should pick one up to practice with so I don’t stay 100% spoiled…
Looks like a sweet Aleut
Sounds like you’re buying the dihedral stuff and only getting half the fun though. Try flipping it over and find the real magic!!!
“Dihedral” side is OK (and will naturally feel right to those with EP background), but I find it best left to towing, swimming with paddle, etc. Situations where drag/slip are advantageous.
Look at it from an engineering perspective. Ridge is a primarily for strength in compression (and weight savings) meaning flatter side is mostly paddled. If your more into tradition than science, a close look at old photos shows ridge forward.
Flatter side as powerface is a bit more winglike and takes a bit to get to feel right and really dial it in, then it’s cleaner (particularly the release), and less effort for speed (at faster pace anyway - 'bout same going slower) - and really feels right.
Of course Aleuts vary, and all that sort of ties into the loom shape, but since that one based on an original one it should have the egg shaped thing going on - and should feel good both ways. More finesse on one side, more grab on the other. Damn smart those Aleut.
Do you mean me?
Gee, I sure hope not. One of the things I like best about GPs is their “organic” feel in the water; it’s as if they belong there. I love watching one emerge from a sterile, generic plank and take on a flowing shape as I carve and sand it. Each paddle is a learning experience, as you decode the secrets of it’s grain and work with it. The wood feels natural and “correct” in my hands. And, you can’t beat the scent of cedar in the air!
Is that poetic enough???
Admittedly, I have no real feel of connection to history, but that’s probably because the GP is simply a modern tool that has a long past, much like a hammer or a plane. It’s every bit as functional as other modern paddle types, it just languished in obscurity until recently.
I love my GPs and although I still own a couple of nice Euro paddles, I have no desire to use them.
I Too Started With a Euro
I too started with a Euro blade (Werner Foam Core Kalliste) thinking it was the best for me. Then one day a darksider friend offered me his “stick”. (No not that! Filthy minds!) Anyway…I was hooked. He almost had to pry it from my hands to get it back. Just felt so much better to paddle with, easier with less fatigue and very intuitive as far as paddle position. Never went back after that. Very shortly after, got my own from Chris at Tuktu Paddles. Great paddle.
Feathered?
are the GPs feathered, straight, or depends on the wielder?
Are we on decaf now?
Normally this subject is like stepping on a hornets nest. Pretty sane and reserved - we must all be on decaf.
Never seen one feathered
– Last Updated: Sep-18-09 12:10 PM EST –
One of the features of a GP is that it is easier to alter, either angle or where being held, than a Euro. In fact a Storm paddle is supposed to be slid around for normal use. So I am not sure why you'd ever bother to feather a GP.
Good point
I guess the GP (like old buildings, politicians and ladies of the evening) has been around long enough to acquire respectability. I think we can safely start picking on those lunatic Aleut paddlers now - let’s see, where is Greyak hiding…
No need
– Last Updated: Sep-19-09 5:16 PM EST –
Feathering is to shed wind, which a GP does anyway, no need to feather it. In fact, I've gotten so used to it, I drilled a hole in my carbon AT so I could un-feather it. My decrepit wrists can't deal with a feathered paddle.
feathering
or I should say the lack of it, was my biggest challenge becoming accustomed to the GP. A few years back when I first started kayaking, most everything I read on P-net indicated a new person should start with a 60 degree feather. So that’s what I did.
Earlier this spring I decided to acquire a GP, and started using my Euro unfeathered in order to become familiar with that. I wasn’t totally changed over when I started using the GP.
As far as the GP goes and what I like about it with a few months experience,
- It attracts attention and people ask about it when I am paddling alone.
- It sure is easier to use in wind than a euro, either feathered or not, for me.
- I really like how quickly I can turn with extended sweeps when going through twisty sloughs.
- It gives me confidence in rolling and I probably have a 95+ percent success with it .vs about 90 percent with the euro.
- I do get tired less quickly than with a euro paddle, by both time and distance measures.