ten pounds in the day hatch
would eliminate the “bit” feeling. After a couple weeks take it out. Lots of boat becomes a liability in high winds.
there is no tried and true answer…
i try to have lots of contact but not pressure…so…just a bit of contact between myself and the boat but not so mucht ath iam LOCKED down into it…i want wiggle room…
i also prefer to have my thighs up a little higher because it makes the boat respond a little better by raising your center of gravity upwards…edging and leans are easier (a wee bit more precarious on a lean (but it is a wet sport)…
i played with rental boats for awhile before i finally got mine…and having to reset the outfitting between renters made me realise what i liked and found comfy outfitting-wise…
the best confuiguration for the best boat control is a diamond shape…6 points of contact…
2 butt cheeks (they can be used independently) 2 knees and 2 feet/heels/toes (depending on outfitting)…white water boats are fitted on this premise as well…the more contact that you have with your boat the more you and your boat can become/and act as one unit…you want to be certaint hat if you NEED a lean that with the proper movement you wil attain that lean-without slipping first to the edge of the seat to reach the hip pad etc…
learn what is TOO tight to fit and get out of…then loosen your fit up until it hits that really comfy feel…
rob
Are you going to the Tacoma SK Symposium
– Last Updated: May-18-07 6:46 PM EST –
Since you mentioned that you are on the Sound this weekend, I wonder if you are attending the Tacoma Sea Kayak Symposium. There should be a lot of vendors there with demo boats. http://www.metroparkstacoma.org/page.php?id=97
I know that Sean Morley, the Valley rep, is going to be there. If you can possibly talk to him and have him look at you, it would be well worth while - even just to say hi to him. I expect he will have an Aquanaut HV to try.
I believe that George Gronseth and his partner Barbara from the Kayak Academy will also be there with WS and Impex boats, and again you couldn't get better advice. There are supposed to be a lot of vendors there - wish I could attend.
There really isn't a good substitute for trying a large number of boats, and people like Sean, George, and Barbara are all going to make sure that you know what type of boat suits your size and style.
Tacoma SK Symposium
Will definitely be there at the Tacome Symposium on Sunday, demo’ing boats. I will be trying out the Capella 173 (been wanting to do that for some time, and that may wind up being my boat), as well as the Eddyline Nighthawk 17.5, Aquanaut HV, and whatever else I can fit in comfortably. Between my day trip on Saturday with the Tempest 170 and my demo’ing boats on Sunday, by the end of the weekend, my decision will be made. Thanks.
My thoughts on boats
Luke, great that you’re getting out and paddling the boats. As you’re realizing, you’ll know once you paddle them whether you like them. I’ll share my thoughts on what I like, just for some comparison. Think of this as a casual beachfront conversation, as if we had bumped into each other at the symposium.
I may have missed it earlier, but what kind of paddling do you see yourself doing?
My paddling is day trips on bays, protected coast, surf (once so far,) flat rivers, lakes. The day trips consist of a combination of point A to point B, and play. The play may consist of surf or tidal races or fast flat river sections that simulate tidal races (once so far), rolling for the sake of rolling, or just pushing it in wind and chop to build skills.
There are three things that I know I like in a boat for myself.
- Average to a lot of rocker in the bow, AKA a loose bow. I want to be able to come around 90 degrees on a single stroke. The easier the better. Edging isn’t my strong areas, however, if I can lay a stiff tracker over and come around, I can lay a loose tracker over and come around even better. Very handy in surf, maneuvering in rough water, rescues, or any congested or tight places. With practice in strokes and leaning it will track fine for point A to point B. If it doesn’t, or until skills are adequate, a little skeg will stiffen up the tracking.
- Low rear deck for rolling.
- Not too much volume. Doesn’t bob too much in the water, not as affected by wind, and easier to do hand rolls (play).
If I were doing mostly multi-day trips then I might want stiffer tracking and more volume. Still not sure if I would want the stiffer tracking, but I probably wouldn’t do as much playing in a loaded boat.
I would definitely try the Impex boats. The build quality is good and some of the hulls, like the Assateague may be what you’re looking for. The Force boats are on my list to try at WCSKS 207, though they may not have enough rocker for my preference.
The Aquanaut seemed like a lot stiffer tracker than the T170, for example. I didn’t like it, given my stated preferences above. I wanted to like it, but knew once I paddled it that I didn’t.
The Nighthawk 17.5 will be gigantic, much bigger than the T180.
Can’t comment on the P&H boats as I only paddled one for 15 minutes in 2003 and don’t have a clear memory of it. They’re on my list to try at WCSKS 2007, too.
Paul S.
A/B ratio
I don’t think tippy is necessarily better but you can get controllable range of stability when you’re deep enough in the water. The risk of getting a very big boat is that it won’t be as anchored in the water when the wind picks up. In other words for a given amount of windage it’s nice to have a certain amount of in the water.
Full Day in the 170
Paul, Again, thanks for a huge amount of sharing on your part. To answer your question, though I will eventually go out on multi-day trips (starting with overnighters) my primary focus for now is to do day trips, mostly on open sea water. Here in Western Washington, we have Puget Sound. It is technically not the ocean, but it is part of a complex multi-waterway system that empties into the pacific ocean and is subject to tides, currents, and winds. As a result, you can get a lot of choppy waters with nice waves and winds ranging from 5 knots to about 30 knots. So, it can get very ocean-like and at times, and at other times, the water can be glassy calm. I find the more active waters quite exciting and that is my focus. I did sit-on-top paddling on the open ocean (with about 2-3 foot swells) in Hawaii this past December-January, and I was hooked. That’s what prompted me (upon return to WA) to get hooked up with a kayak club and really learn some good techniques (paddling and rescue) for sea kayaking, which is what I’ve just done (and am now advancing my skills). Paddling on small lakes and gentle rivers (I’ve done a fair amount of both) is nice and relaxing, but I like the excitment of more open active waters with some wave action. Today, I did a day trip with the kayak club and it was a blast. I was in the Tempest 170 all day so I got an extremely good feel for the boat. The cockpit fits me like a glove (as opposed to the 180, which I paddled with all day last week). The 170 is a more active boat for me than the 180, but with that, I find its primary stability pretty tippy for me, particuarly in choppy waters (which we had PLENTY of today). In calmer waters (which we also had) the tippiness was not as much of an issue, and when we paddled into the waves and about a 7 knot wind, I had a ball. However on the return, we had waves coming from the stern to portside and I felt I had to be much more alert in my balance, and was not as relaxed. On the other hand, this boat has AMAZING secondary stability. My edging was confident and excellent during turns and braces. Also, with the skeg up, tracking was not great. I was told by several people that the Tempests are playful boats and do not track as well as some other brands, and I found that to be true. But the skeg down, excellent tracking in calm or choppy waters. So, overall, I like the boat a lot, and I have to decide if I want to get some more initial stability in another boat (but not give up the secondary) or allow myself to grow into the “tippiness” of the 170, to where it is not an issue. Tomorrow, at the sea kayak symposium in Tacoma, there will be LOADS of boats to try. I mainly want to test drive the Capella 173. I’ve done a lot of research on it, and it may be the best of both worlds for me. In a local kayak store, I’ve looked closely at the Capella (models other than the 173) and the Tempest, and though the Capella has a bit more rocker, the shallow v hull and chines are very similar (to the eye and touch). Tomorrow, I will see how it handles in water. If I love the Capella, I will get that, otherwise, it will probably be the T170. I will try others at the symposium. If Impex is there, and I sit in a boat that feels good, I’ll give it a try. Thanks again.
Tried the Impex Assateague
Hi, Again. The last time I replied to you, I mentioned that I already tried the Explorer HV. Handled well, but with a beam width of 21.5, a little to tippy for me in primary. But at the Tacoma Symposium this past Sunday, I paddled the Impex Assateague and really liked it. It had the primary and secondary stability I like, allowing for great edging and turns (for such a big boat), with excellent (up-skeg) tracking and speed. Overall, liked it a lot, but decided on the Capella 173 (handles as well as the Assateague, perhaps a bit better). My deciding factor was the length. The Assateague is almost 18 ft, and I didn’t want a boat quite that big. Preferred a boat 17-17.5. So at 17’ 3", the Capella 173 is perfect. It also had outstanding tracking, speed, initial and secondary stability, with very comfortable edging and turning. But thanks for recommending the Impex. My Capella won’t be in for about a week, and tomorrow eve I’m going on a short paddle with some people, so I am renting the Eddyline Nighthawk (16 or 17.5). That was another of your recommendations. Thanks.
Went to Tacoma Symposium
I went this past Sunday and did try the Valley Aquanaut HV and the Impex Assateague. Liked them both. For such big boats, they handled very well, with outstanding initial and secondary stability, allowing for great, comfortable edging and pretty sharp turning. Also had very good speed and up-skeg tracking. With a 15" depth, the Aquanaut is very high volume. They are both just a bit under 18 ft., and I honestly didn’t want a boat quite that long. Wanted something shorter (17-17.5 ft) for better maneuverabilty and quicker turning). I loved the Capella 173, and that is the boat I chose. I ordered it from my local kayak store and it is coming in next week. It had everything I was looking for, but will be padding the cockpit a bit for a closer fit around the thighs. Thanks for your suggestions.
You will ove that 173
I too narrowed it down to the 173 and the Aquanaut HV, both great boats. As you observed, the 173 is a bit shorter and wider with actually a bit higher volume. It turns a bit easier than the Aquanaut and the shorter length can be nice.
The main thing is that you got to try them and you chose the one that fit you best. The 173 is a wonderful boat, and I will be interested to see how the new foot braces will work. The two weak point of the Aquanaut IMO are the hard to adjust Yakima braces, and the backband which doesn’t give an older type guy much support.
The 173 has a wonderful seat. I thought that you would have to pad it out quite a bit at your size, but once you have it, you will have a great boat for a long time. Congrats.
I love my Aquanaut, but could have been quite happy with the 173. It’s all good.
Capella 173
SactoBob - My Capella comes in next week. Looking forward to it. My wife’s new Capella 163 just came in today, and we picked it up. She hopes to give it a maiden run in the next couple of days. We have a big day trip coming up on June 3 (island hopping on Puget Sound). That will be the real maiden voyage. Will let you know how it goes. Thanks.
Luke