Look at Hemlock Canoe Works offering
They make two sized pack canoes the Nessmuk at 10'6" at 16 and 14lbs and a larger Nessmuk XL at 24 and 22lbs. They are well made and paddle nicely. I have seen them and these canoes are constructed with great craftsmanship as all Hemlock canoes are. Might be worth a look or even a test paddle if you are in upper NY. (www.hemlockcanoe.com)
Yeah, Hemlock uses a good layup
and their craftsmanship is good also.
Comparison sheet
I've a comparison sheet including every pack canoe currently made. Email me if you're interested.
Basically, the smaller boats, Hemlocks, Hornbecks and Heritage/Compass boats emphasis the portage rather than on water performance. They are all somewhat slow, as predicted by waterline length, somewhat fragile, and have minimal outfitting. GRE and Savage offer the best designs, by Newman and Dillard, and engineering, wet bag and infusion, in this category, but all have minimal outfitting; seat often a foam pad, fixed backrests and no footpegs, all to minimize weight and improve cartage.
The larger units; Bell, Vermont Canoe, Wenonah are faster, more seaworthy, more rugged and have enhanced outfitting; all have adjustable back support and footpegs to improve comfort and control at the expense of portability. Bell's Bucktail is an older Yost design. Bell and Wenonah wet bag, Vermont's Tupper, a Robbie Frennete design, was to be infused starting this spring but it seems they are still wet bagging.
The Placid product pulls out all the stops: the sole tumblehomed pack canoe from a top shelf designer, Yost, and top construction, infused Carbon/Kev, in a larger unit with full and customizable outfitting and minimal weight, with CobraSox rails, but all these features are pricey, roughly proving there are no free lunches.
The interested can compare tracking by dividing waterline length by waterline width in the same units. The higher the number the better the boat will track.
Forward speed potential is a bit tougher, but roughly multiple the square of the waterline length by 1.55 to arrive at theoretical forward speed. I'm using a constant that isn't over the range of pack canoes, and the L/W ratio effects the amount of wave-making drag, but close enough for this discussion.
For a free lunch, portage fast and
raid the food packs of another party who’re on the portage.
And Charlie isn’t prejudiced at all.
Hornbeck
I bought a Hornbeck last year and I love it,It's nice and light and it paddles great.The best part is that it will fit inside a Dodge Caravan.
Now String;
I was a principal at Bell for most of a decade and a principal at Placid for five years, but both stints with those boatbuilders are over. I retired this winter.
As a builder who has hired and fired designers, developed lamination schedules, some of which worked pretty well, and worked with hand lamination and wet bagging with bell and developed a workable infusion process when with placid, and adjusted lamination schedules to work within those very different constrains, I probably have broader pack canoe experience than many builders and most buyers.
I do have my biases. I want a seakindly hull that paddles well, including good forward speed, good tracking and good turning ability. As boats get shorter, it is increasingly harder to achieve top ratings in all four performance categories.
Consequently, I prefer larger hulls, and want to reduce weight with sophisticated engineering and construction. This tends to increase price.
I also won't live with marginal outfitting. Not that I'm a softy, it just prays on my mind that the paddler on my left, or right, might be more comfortable than I am.
I am very satified with my RF and when
all the yakkers get out moaning ang groaning, I often spend breaks comfortably sitting in my boat.
Comparison sheet
I was researching light carry canoes and came across your post regarding a comparison chart you populated. I’d appreciate it if you could send me a copy to David.kirchhoff@ge.com.
I’m looking for a single man maybe a 2 man for 1-5 mile carries for ADK trout fishing.
THANK YOU!!!
Hornbeck finds itself in good company with Martin Guitar and the Orvis fly rod. Everyone compares themselves to you and then consigns you to Lilli Dipping. I’m heading to the adirondacks soon. Think I’ll schedule a demo at Hornbeck.,
Not at all… But some of their older designs were quite slow. The sharp skegged bow and stern had a pronounced cheek… Water is not on social media and doesn’t care what your opinion is… The truth is cheeked boats are read by water as shorter than they really are.
New Tricks are a modification and its funny that the hull designs look more like Placids now.
That said they do have a market and fit some paddlers needs well. Yes go try. Also go up the road to Placid on Mill Pond in Lake Placid NY,
And Adirondack Canoe Co in Mineville
And Slipstream in Broadalbin
Everything written about both boats above is true.
I have a first generation Rapidfire (heavier with wood gunwales). I had an elevated seat on fore/aft rails installed in my RF because I did not like sitting on the bottom, even with the highest of three molded drop-in seats available. I detest using a kayak paddle and much prefer to use a single blade canoe paddle in this canoe. I have raced it several times in the Adirondack 90 mile canoe race and have done well with it. Unfortunately, to be competitive in this race, and by the race rules, a kayak paddle is the necessary tool.
Otherwise I am a single blade paddler 100% sitting high in my seat. When I cannot train in other boats with my racing team, I can be seen single blade padddling solo many miles in my RF on near home lakes and rivers. The RF is relatively easy to carry with a well fitted yoke (five miles total during the 3-day 90-miler), 10 miles total during the Cannonball-90 (the original 90 route all in a single day, done for “fun” and training).
If I had the choice to do it again now, i would buy the newer lighter faster PB Shadow instead. The Shadow was created by Joe at PB, IMO, for him to beat out all of the older Rapidfires that were becoming common during the 90-miler race and as a group they have always done so handily in the Shadow.
However, a few years ago I had the desire to paddle a diagonal across the Adirondacks from my home to my daughter’s home, at the time partially across an arm of Lake Champlain just beyond Plattsburgh, NY. It was the year before the NFCT opened, but I knew the route well from experience on the 90 route to Saranac Lake and beyond from early NFCT reports.
I knew my RF was not well suited for that task. So I visited Pete Hornbeck to purchase a much lighter weight 10.5’ Hornbeck that carries on top of my full weight backpack. Turned out to be a sleek black new hybrid carbon/kevlar model, the very first one Pete had just completed building. True, not the fastest boat, but it carries easily and takes rough weather and wind blown waves well (I made a spray cover to fit) and although it does require using the dreaded kayak paddle. I completed the 185 total mile trip with total combined carries adding up to 65 miles by the time I finished during a hot dry low water 7 days in July. I crushed the cheeks between rocks on the bony lower Saranac River and scratched the heck out of the bottom. Peter later fixed and reinforced the crushed cheeks at no charge.
A dear friend gifted a 12’ Hornbeck to my daughter which she uses and likes a lot. I found a 14’ pristine carbon Hornbeck on Craigslist from a guy heading out that very day, moving to FL from not far away. I picked up that boat for $400, about 1/5th what it could have gone for. Others in my family have used that boat, but it does not take the place of the Rapidfire that I train in every day.
My observation was not about boats so much a rhetoric.would you agree that referring to a well loved boat as suitable for LILLY DIPPING or whatever was a tad demeaning? I was amused that repeatedly the Hornbeck is referenced on these sites, that’s all. Good place to be in. How fair is it to compare boats when one is double in price. And so you know….a Takamini is not a Martin. I paddle an Aerolite SOF 13. Darn kids wanted to go to college. I’ll get a Hornbeck for $400.00 from Craigslist. I check everyday.,
You can’t go wrong with either one. Placid’s will definitely be a faster and more efficient paddle. They are also almost 2x the price.
I paddle my Rapidfire regularly, at least twice a day during the cooler parts of the day recently as I get ready for the 90 miler. I paddle it single blade as a trainer for later canoe racing when I will be in larger boats with one or more team members. I have paddled my RF on the 90 miler canoe race, and multiple times on the Cannonball-90 (the entire traditional 90 mile route all in a single day).
Although others have done so, I would not want to paddle my Hornbecks in any competitive race, much less the 90 miler. But as mentioned earlier, I did portage one a total of 65 miles on a 185 mile week long trip to Plattsburgh, much of it being the same familiar route as the 90 miler. A Hornbeck has also been with me on many bushwhack off trail treks visiting isolated remote Adirondack ponds. Being much shorter, it easily weaves in and out between closely spaced trees where I could never transport a heavier longer RF. Very different boats, very different purposes, very different results.
Interesting to see the non-race or non-speed perspective. I came on to this thread to look at the comparison and really only come from a tripping and poking about in the back country perspective… not so deep and far as the years pile on. Stability in waves on somewhat larger water matters some to me, weight matters a bit more every year, only a single blade thus far, not much interested in sitting on the floor and heeling over is a thing of the past. Had looked at some smaller boats boats by Dave Curtis and a skin builder near Toronto but nothing worked out when I was buying so I bought a smaller lighter, smaller tandem from my Souris River friends and had’em rig it for easier solo. Now I’m interested in just one more boat, again if I can get the move back north finished soon… Hornbeck or… other that can handle some bumps and a not small human. Thanks for your insight!
Check out the Swift line-up, though the value equation may suffer depending on how the tariff situation plays out with Canada. Can’t go wrong with PBW in terms of a quality build (at a price!). Not sure what the situation is now, but wait times have been long at times. In my experience Northstar offers a good price/value blend.
Wow. Those are seriously beautiful, high tech marvels! I can see why the comparable length model would be 2.5x the cost of my Hornbeck. Infusion construction, kevlar gunwales and seats make the PWB boats 25% lighter. I am developing a slight case of pack canoe envy.
-sing
Agree about PBW and Northstar. Adirondack Canoe Co is another interesting builder. Originally started by a 10 year veteran of Hornbeck , they were Chad Smith and partner’s own designs. Stiffer than Hbeck, with Kevlar interior, carbon exterior, some foam in the floor and gelcoat bottom. He sold to Essex Industries (quality canoe accessory producer) in Mineville, NY and helped them set up production. They changed the process from original hand layup to vacuum infusion though I haven’t seen the new ones. I have an older '14 Boreas along with a PBW which is certainly the superior boat with more sophisticated hull design. But Adirondack makes a pretty nice canoe.
Definitely. I so wanted to try an Adirondack Canoe Co boat (or two!) before I bought my Magic, but no longer lived in the Adks and couldn’t justify a multi-day road trip. One of these days…