I only wear 1 polar fleece Kokatat bunny suit and maybe 3 thinner layers below for colder windy days. Below 35* water temp ( coldest here) and 15-20 mph wind with 32* air is as bad as I have be out in. Two polar fleece and I think I would be way to hot.
One thing that nobody has mentioned, but I’ve seen on the water, is that air in a drysuit can flow from your torso into the legs of the suit, creating a lot of buoyancy there - where you don’t want it - leaving your torso to sink. Effectively, it’s the drysuit version of the “Cleopatra’s needle” problem that happens to boats without front bulkheads. Without a PFD to provide torso floatation, this can be extremely dangerous! It’s one more good reason to purge the air from your dry suit and wear a PFD.
@bnystrom said:
One thing that nobody has mentioned, but I’ve seen on the water, is that air in a drysuit can flow from your torso into the legs of the suit, creating a lot of buoyancy there - where you don’t want it - leaving your torso to sink. Effectively, it’s the drysuit version of the “Cleopatra’s needle” problem that happens to boats without front bulkheads. Without a PFD to provide torso floatation, this can be extremely dangerous! It’s one more good reason to purge the air from your dry suit and wear a PFD.
Correct! The one time out of hundred that I did not completely “burp” my suit before an ice cold involuntary swim during a winter whitewater run, was the one time I got worked ass-upwards inside a grabby hole(and I had my PFD on, btw).
My torso elastic drawstring wasn’t closed snug and tight before I took my spill. (Dunk me once–Shame on you, Mr. Water Feature–Dunk me twice, shame on me!). I swam out of it after a struggle, but Michelin Man legs proved a revelation. No, no extra “insulating air” for me, thanks–You can keep the thermodynamics and science…In fact, I’ve never met an experienced winter whitewater paddler anywhere who doesn’t first burp his suit(unless he idiotically forgets, like I did) in which case, usually a safety-minded paddling buddy will politely point it out. I want complete freedom of movement at all times, even if it means shivering a bit… But wicking layer, poly fleece, glacier gloves and booties are usually more than enough for most chilly conditions.
I burp my suit by squatting and leaning forward but don’t walk in the water to remove all air like vacuum packing.
@bnystrom said:
One thing that nobody has mentioned,
Erhh…
You are actually the fourth in this thread to mention exactly that.
@bnystrom said:
One thing that nobody has mentioned, but I’ve seen on the water, is that air in a drysuit can flow from your torso into the legs
As long as we seem to be repeating things here:
Monkeyhead: “you can’t control very well where the air ends up and if you end up with your head below your legs, the air can rapidly move there and then sort of anchor you in a feet up position.”
Guideboatguy: “whatever air is present will simply flow away from any areas on which pressure is exerted from the outside by water, and if you are floating horizontally at the surface, the air could easily end up all being within the dry suit’s legs with your upper body sagging down beneath the surface. Recovering from that would be problematic even under the best of situations”
ekilson: “As stated earlier, air in the drysuit can effect your mobility, and make it more difficult to swim if the air ends up down at your feet.”
Allan Olesen: “When you are floating in the water, the water pressure will force all the air to the very top of your suit (with the very top being at your feet or at your shoulders depending on your position in the water).”
Silly me…
Yep, it’s important to get dry suit wear down pat come June 
@spiritboat said:
Yep, it’s important to get dry suit wear down pat come June
Depends where you paddle. The east side of the Bruce Peninsula (Georgian Bay) was at about 5°C after recent strong SW winds churned up the bottom water. The sheltered bays to the SW NE that received the warm surface water are a very comfy 24°C.
[Edit: Wind coming from SW, pushing water to NE]
What do you do when you don’t know the water temperature and the air temp is in the low 80s - and you expect to spend some time in the water practicing rescues?
@Rookie said:
What do you do when you don’t know the water temperature and the air temp is in the low 80s - and you expect to spend some time in the water practicing rescues?
My wife and I were paddling near Parry Sound, ON this past weekend and my initial water temperature estimates were 10-15°C (50-60°F) a week before based on the surface temperature web site. It looked a little higher the day before, but still cool. Now, the small shallow inlets and bays we were in don’t really show on the map, but I was surprised to find 24-26°C (75-79°F) while measuring throughout the trip.
So, to answer your question, we both packed our wet suits, dry suits, and quick dry clothing so that we could make the final decision once we got there. We both opted for no immersion protection, just the quick dry layers. Air temperature was very warm and wind wasn’t so strong that it cooled excessively.
Now, if I were to go for a paddle in 5° (41°F) water with air temperatures approaching 30°C (86°F) like it was today, it’s a much harder decision. I’d have to have something on for immersion, if only to limit the shock with the large temperature differential. I’d likely opt for a shorty wet suit if I wasn’t too far from shore or if heading way out, or maybe my dry suit with minimal layers underneath and regular dips to stay cool. Either way I wouldn’t last long between chilly dips before I overheated.
It’s an easier call if you are planning to be in the water much of the time. At least, after you arrive and know the actual water temperature. I’d be dressing mostly for the water temperature, maybe a little on the cool side since I’d be working and making some heat too. Dry suits are easier here, I think, because you can put them on and take them off with minimal privacy requirements. Presumably you’d be near shore so you can land to modify your under layers if required. Conversely, depending what you wear under the wet suit, you might want a secluded area for modesty’s sake. The insulation value can’t be adjusted either.
@Sparky961 said:
@spiritboat said:
Yep, it’s important to get dry suit wear down pat come JuneDepends where you paddle…"
Gosh, really? Guess I better throw the Kokatat in the suitcase for the paddling trip I’m planning here next week…http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-6I5P1_1ucV4/URiacrc2ZdI/AAAAAAAAAUc/3dr2XyuHUns/s1600/penguins-in-antarctica.jpg
@Sparky961 said:
It’s an easier call if you are planning to be in the water much of the time. At least, after you arrive and know the actual water temperature. I’d be dressing mostly for the water temperature, maybe a little on the cool side since I’d be working and making some heat too. Dry suits are easier here, I think, because you can put them on and take them off with minimal privacy requirements. Presumably you’d be near shore so you can land to modify your under layers if required. Conversely, depending what you wear under the wet suit, you might want a secluded area for modesty’s sake. The insulation value can’t be adjusted either.
Have been spoiled by my drysuit - never have been a fan of wetsuits, although I have one which I use for pool practice. Maybe one of these is in my future:
41* F is an easy decision for me dry suit. I don’t care what the air is. I don’t even think about getting rid if it till 60* water temp.
@PaddleDog52 said:
41* F is an easy decision for me dry suit. I don’t care what the air is. I don’t even think about getting rid if it till 60* water temp.
You would think. It would be great if it were that easy. But if you overheat and become completely soaked under the dry suit like I do there’s very little insulating value anymore. The water in the suit conducts the heat from your body much more quickly than the air that’s supposed to be trapped in your insulating layers.
In theory, you’re right though. As the saying goes, “Dress for immersion!” It’s just that it isn’t always easy to find a comfortable and safe combination.
I suppose we’re wandering off into another topic now, but who am I to stop it? Anyone else paddle where the air temperature can be that much warmer than the water? I assume the only feasible solution is to dress for the water and spend lots of time in it. I guess there’s always the option not to paddle as well, but is that really an option?
@Rookie said:
Have been spoiled by my drysuit - never have been a fan of wetsuits, although I have one which I use for pool practice. Maybe one of these is in my future:
LOL
The same instructor I told the “Michelin Man” story about earlier in this thread also impressed some great wisdom on me. He said “the more you paddle, the less modest you become.” I’ve embraced the principle.
I try not to do anything that will get me a fine or cause permanent mental issues in young children, but I don’t usually have to look far for a “change room” either. 
@Sparky961 said:
@PaddleDog52 said:
41* F is an easy decision for me dry suit. I don’t care what the air is. I don’t even think about getting rid if it till 60* water temp.You would think. It would be great if it were that easy. But if you overheat and become completely soaked under the dry suit like I do there’s very little insulating value anymore. The water in the suit conducts the heat from your body much more quickly than the air that’s supposed to be trapped in your insulating layers.
The following incident was reported at the ongoing Race to Alaska. Quoting from the “Daily Fix” discussing some of the issues a few encountered when the winds went from 0 to 50 in about 30 minutes;
“There were stories of hypothermia both diagnosed and not; at least one trip to the hospital. He was prepared for cold, he wasn’t prepared for sweat he built up rowing to be trapped in a drysuit then turned life threatening when calm turns rowing into hunkering paralyzed and vomiting; seasick survival mode with waves building to twice the size we hope the 13-foot boat will never see again. He couldn’t row to keep warm, he couldn’t do anything, and his body got cold and then colder.”
Scary stuff.
Indeed, HYPERthermia is one step away from HYPOthermia give the right (wrong) conditions. This is just as true on land as it is on (and in) the water.
Never got completely soaked even in 75-80*. No slim Jim here either. Rather be in damp insulation with a drysuit than in cold water and no suit completely wet in water. I am alone most of my excursions so no room for error.
@PaddleDog52 said:
Never got completely soaked even in 75-80*. No slim Jim here either. Rather be in damp insulation with a drysuit than in cold water and no suit completely wet in water. I am alone most of my excursions so no room for error.
That boat pulled out of R2AK because of ongoing issues the skipper had with hypothermia, I do not know the brand of drysuit being worn or if it was made of a material that could breathe.