Here’s the real “statistic”(and it has nothing to do whatever with the liability of Mother Nature throwing a curve ball whilst one is on the water, or Mr. Walyak-Come-Lately neglecting his PFD): Of all boating-related deaths, alcohol use was determined to be the number one contributing factor. In effect, the majority of injuries and fatalities were the direct result of alcohol consumption.
@tdaniel said:
I here that a lot- “driving is more dangerous than ww paddling”. i just don’t believe it. A lot more people drive than ww boat.
Your right - people spend a lot more time in their car than in their boat, so there are a lot more auto accidents. Even so, paddling accidents are pretty rare. And most people aren’t crashing down class 4 or 5 rapids in rafts - that’s obviously more hazardous.
@spiritboat said:
Here’s the real “statistic”: Of all boating-related deaths, alcohol use was determined to be the number one contributing factor. In effect, the majority of injuries and fatalities were the direct result of alcohol consumption.
No doubt about that - especially with motor boats. It’s number 6 in the Coast Guard data.
@eckilson said:
The common adventure model is more like “a bunch of guys and gals who just got together to paddle.” The meet-up group paddles that I have been involved with have typically been initiated by an individual who suggests a time and place to meet. People then show up or don’t. There really isn’t much in the way of guidance or supervision and people are free to sort of do what they want.
That might be the case with meet-up groups, but that is not my experience on how common adventure trips work in the context of more advanced trips (especially whitewater, but probably longer open water trips as well) with more experienced paddlers. I find that common adventure trips are run just like any other trip, except that there is shared responsibility rather than a single leader. Everyone is expected to have the skills and experience to run the trip successfully (or to fess up if they don’t so the group can decide if they want to take them along), and help when needed. Leadership is fluid, but there are definitely leaders. If someone knows the area, they take the lead in showing the group the route. If there’s an accident and someone has good rescue skills, they will take the lead on the rescue. Some of the best run trips I have been on are common adventure trips with experienced paddlers. I’ve never been on a meet-up group paddle, but I can see how they would have more of a “wild west” feel.
This no doubt varies greatly with the nature of the group. I would expect groups that paddle open ocean or significant whitewater to be much more discriminatory regarding who participates. The meetup groups that I have paddled with other than our Ozark Rendezvous or the former Raystown event have primarily been paddling on easy water, Class I streams or flat water.
The last meetup group paddle my wife and I did was on a very straightforward Class I river. We were in a tandem canoe and there were one or two other canoes. The rest of the group was in kayaks of all descriptions, some whitewater, some touring kayaks, some rec boats. It became immediately apparent within 200 yards of the put-in that some of these folks had zero moving water experience. There was a tree in the water, in pretty sluggish current, easily avoidable. Nonetheless, at least 2 boats managed to hit it. One was a couple in a tandem kayak who wound up taking another swim within the next 100 yards and wound up walking their boat back up to the put-in. My wife and I stayed with the group long enough to witness a half dozen additional swims, and then decided to leisurely paddle on downstream, since we had a 2 hour drive to get back home and had plans for the evening.
We did stop at the most potentially difficult rapid on the stretch, a breached dam with a straightforward and unobstructed non-vertical drop of a few feet with some standing waves. Basically a Class I+. We ran it, eddied out, and decided to wait until at least some of the group showed up. At that point we planned to tell the “leaders” that we needed to get on downstream. We waited and waited. After about forty minutes no one showed up and we went ahead and paddled on down. I felt a bit bad about leaving a group I had started a paddle with but we had already spent well over twice as much time on the water as this particular run usually takes. I can only assume that there were many more swims that delayed the group.
There is no way on earth I would wish to put myself in a position of responsibility for a group like this that might entail a risk of liability.
@pblanc said:
There is no way on earth I would wish to put myself in a position of responsibility for a group like this that might entail a risk of liability.
I agree Pete - I have heard other horror stories about poor leadership and inexperienced participants who show up at meetup group activities (hiking as well as paddling). The website makes it quick and easy to set up and respond to trips, and that can be an advantage and a disadvantage. The organizer may be qualified and the participants may be capable, or they may not. I guess you could have the same problem with any group, but there seem to be more issues with meetup groups. That is not to say that meetup groups can’t work. There are a couple of very well run meetup groups in my area that focus mostly flatwater trips. I’d do their trips anytime.
We’ve gotten a little off topic from Chip’s original question on waivers, but I find the question of liability and alternatives to traditional paddling clubs to be very interesting. It is good that we have all these different ways to find trips, but I’m sorry to see more traditional paddling clubs disappear.
I went to my club’s website to look more closely at the waiver. It’s a general waiver for each club activity. The activity, organizer, and dates are listed at the top. The trip organizer is just that…the organizer, not the trip leader, although many people refer to the TO as the TL in many cases. In the case of a whitewater rafting trip, the TO may be the person who was lucky enough to draw a lottery permit, but they may not have experience on that river, so therefore they will recruit an experienced TL for the trip.
The waiver has about 6 different sections, including…voluntary participation, assumption of risk, preparation for the activity, and release of liability.
The boating division of the club is pretty good about training. If you are new to the club or new to boating, you must attend a beginner’s training session before being eligible to sign up for a trip. The training session includes a weekend of safety, on water skills, basic river camping, and organizing education. Last year we had a beginner’s weekend with day trips, and we also had two beginner overnighters. The person who does the small craft training is ACA certified, but the whitewater rafting folks are just long time rafters with many years of experience. In my 20 years of membership, I have always seen excellent safety skills used on club trips. Trip Organizing is a big job and I’d say that getting people to take on the task of being a TO is the most difficult one the club faces. My club does offer TO education & support, but “herding cats” will always be an exercise in patience.
The most thorough waiver I’ve seen from a legal standpoint is from a 40+ mile annual event here in Northern Michigan. Not only do you agree to release the organizers, sponsors, volunteers, etc., but you agree to pay any attorney fees incurred as a result of litigation because of your “conduct, actions, or inactions” (those last three words cover a lot of territory).
There were 167 paddlers entered last year and I wouldn’t be surprised to see 200+ this year as it’s exceptionally well organized. No trip leaders on the water; you’re on your own. Lots of safety boats along the course and two sweep kayaks. Mass start. It’s not a race, but there are manned checkpoints and time limits on the second day.
The terms of service for meetup include a statement that you release the trip organizer from liability. This doesn’t cover us if a guest shows up without rsvp’ing . When I post the trips they go “I’m going paddling at x on Saturday, come on out if your up for it”.