Trailer is a pita to park, drive, and store for many. Also more money
Not that easy for many people to hold a kayak by the combing and tilt it Up to the roof. Then you need to have the hull in the right position also.
@PaddleDog52 said:
Not that easy for many people to hold a kayak by the combing and tilt it Up to the roof. Then you need to have the hull in the right position also.
Holding the kayak by the coaming “on a tilt” is no different than holding it level. Just grip the cockpit rim farther forward than the balance point and the tilt happens by itself. Then, as long as you aren’t overly short in the first place you can lean the boat against a very high contact point with your hands being about waist-high. As to the boat needing to be in the right position, that should not matter, and if for some reason it does and the only position that works is difficult to set up, that seems like a good reason to modify your loading device to be more accommodating. In my experience, if you get the kayak leaning against the contact point of the rack in any way that’s convenient, it will not care. I’ve even leaned canoes “sideways” against the side-loading bars or the rear bar of my rack as a result of carrying them “on a tilt” while gripping just one gunwale, and the canoes didn’t care either. It only means that you have to rotate the boat on its axis to a more favorable position before you start sliding it up onto the rack, and that’s pretty easy to do after you get it into the proper leaning angle with one end still on the ground.
Three thoughts quickly come to mind: (1) my Yakima boat loader bar has been really helpful to me for loading my boat up onto my pickup youtube.com/watch?v=qHttmdifr_8, (2) boats tend to get heavier the older you get (that has certainly been my experience over the last 30 years such that I now put a very high premium on light weight), and (3) although a fiberglass/composite boat is lighter and therefore easier to load than a polyethylene boat, if you unload away from the water, you will have to carry (or cart, which is not always possible depending on terrain) your boat after that whereas you may be OK dragging a polyethylene boat to the water (can still be heavy but probably not as at much risk for injuring back).
@Guideboatguy said:
Actually, Overstreet, you are being very conservative in taking your measurements
30 minutes…start to finish pictures.
The whole point is there’s a way to do it.
Paddledog, I weigh about 135 and stand 5 ft 3.5 inches. I am getting the boat on the roof of a Rav4, hardly the shortest small SUV out there, and the least heavy boats I am tilting up to the roof come in at 45 to 50 pounds. I believe on most standards that proportion is more than I should be carrying. But the stern is on the gound when I am doing it, or on a tarp on the ground if I positioned it right. As the the hull position, with the roller loader all I have to do is get any portion of the bow between the wheels. Once it is in there I use the perimeter lines to walk to the back of the boat holding it there and left the stern to shove it up, The roller loader is carrying the bulk of the boat’s weight very shortly after I start the push. I can correct any deformity in the angle pretty easily as I run it up.
The same thing works with a 65 pound boat, just works harder. As I get older I am noticing that diff in weight more. Absolutely will grant that. But if I can still do this at my size and past Medicare age, it can’t be an ability reserved to a small percentage of the population.
The combing on a solstice is mid point if you want it to till you have to twist it that way to control it. Unless you drag the end on the ground. You need to control it while it’s your there from wind or it rolling from not being on a surface you want. You will life you hands over your head to get it on. Now you’re sliding it up on vehicle to at least half way point and trying to keep control of it and not letting it roll off the saddles as you slide it forward. Not that easy for many to do.
I do drag the end on a tarp or a blanket on the ground. for a bit. I start my control of the boat from the forward perimeter lines, not the coaming. I am guessing that you are viewing this from a a taller perspective than me. At 5 ft 3.5 inches, if I initiate from the coaming I am lifting way more boat in my own hands than is necessary.
I assume you are talking about the very skinny bit that wants to roll around at the nose of the typical Solstice design. My first sea kayak was a Squall so I know it well. That is the boat where I learned to handle it by myself. Only dropped it twice, but that is the nice thing about starting with a plastic boat.
It also sounds to me as though you are not accounting for the use of wheels to help get it up, like the Roller Loader. I have used the Roller from day one of loading my myself. Granted I have to wiggle the front skinny end of my boats (they have that to a degree as well) to stay straight as I start it up. But once the front is vaguely contained in the roller and it is carrying the boat’s forward weight, that is easy enough to do from the stern. I have had to tilt the Romany towards the middle of the car at times as it went up, it likes to twist more than my other main boat. But with the glide pads in back I have lots of lattitude to maintain the alignment as I go up.
I don’t have my hands over my head until the vast majority of the weight of the boat is on the rack, and with the glide pads in back it is easy to shift and reposition it. I tried saddles in back as well as front, that made it too hard to reposition the boat or correct its angle as it went up.
I have one other trick I have used when I felt that conditions were tricky, haven’t read about it here but it is worth a lot of peace of mind. If I think I am at risk of losing the bow, I take a super long rope and run it from the bow of the boat around a portion of the roof rails on the other side of the car from the one I am loading on, and back into my hands in back. Since if a boat is going to twist the wrong way on you it’ll be off the side you are trying to get it onto. That way. if it is going to fall off of things, I can pull it over so it doesn’t take my side view mirror with it. Probably would work in wind too.
I like the tag line idea from stern off kayak to hitch to keep it from kicking out as you lift the front. Will be making one up soon with caribiner at least on one end.
Ok I am 6’ tall. Yakima bar is at center of my palm fully extended. Pads are 2" or 3" over that. I slide boat up on rubber backed bath mat on back of Excursion. !
For me to get kayak up in need a small step ladder for the final push up and forward. Wheels may be good thought about them for a while but more stuff to carry. Solstice can slide off to the side of pads if not careful. I think think the two Extremes are tad easier with the extra length. 22’ Libra XT is ok because I always have Edith with me.
The roof of my cars since the 2007 Subaru are just under the top of my head, the Rav4 is a little taller than that. I have a significantly bigger height gap than you it sounds like, but am not usually resorting to standing on a stool until the final jiggle to get the boat placed correctly front to back between the glide pads and the saddle. Or when I forget to put on the dangling red thing for driving on the stern before getting the boats on the roof.
I should use the stool to lash down, but I usually end up standing on portions of the interior of the car. Faster to make like a monkey than move the stool around.
It sounds like I am getting a tremendous advantage from using the Roller Loader. I suppose I could do it with just a mat over the back of the car, but it would greatly increase the amount of weight I would be carrying. I am too lazy for that. 
thanks for the feedback!
interesting how kayaks evolved from light Inuit boats into the heavy 60lb beasts of today. i suspect the demand for indestructible kayaks for the hire kayak market changed the design.
@Celia said:
The roof of my cars since the 2007 Subaru are just under the top of my head, the Rav4 is a little taller than that. I have a significantly bigger height gap than you it sounds like, but am not usually resorting to standing on a stool until the final jiggle to get the boat placed correctly front to back between the glide pads and the saddle. Or when I forget to put on the dangling red thing for driving on the stern before getting the boats on the roof.I should use the stool to lash down, but I usually end up standing on portions of the interior of the car. Faster to make like a monkey than move the stool around.
It sounds like I am getting a tremendous advantage from using the Roller Loader. I suppose I could do it with just a mat over the back of the car, but it would greatly increase the amount of weight I would be carrying. I am too lazy for that.
A dangling red thing! Is it the next gray thing?
String -
I wondered how long it would take to get busted for that. Nah, it’s a flag for the overhang. Except I never actually have a flag - I take red or yellow straps, daisy chain them so they are visible to other cars and have one hanging off the back of each boat. Long enough I can see where they are from the driver’s seat when backing up. I prefer trying to back into a spot against a fence similar when I stop to eat on longer trips, especially traveling to summer places with lotso tourists.
Randall -
If you ever sat in a traditionally made SOF (skin on frame) kayak, you would immediately see the need for things that make modern boats weigh more. Relatively comfy seat for aging posteriors, bulkheaded areas with access hatches for starters. And they don’t need the speed and responsiveness to spear marine mammals like Greenland boats, nor does one boat need to transport an entire family with the kids crammed in under the deck like the larger style of tradiotional boats.At least I hope no one is doing so these days - spearing marine mammals or carrying kids under the deck.
I haven’t noticed anyone mention Stellar kayaks. They are costly but available in 4 different composite lay-ups. Their 15’ touring kayak runs 32 to 36 pounds depending on the material. Not a lot of stocking dealerships but we have one in our area and I’ve seen all their models – beautiful boats and very light!
@PaddleDog52 said:
Ok I am 6’ tall. Yakima bar is at center of my palm fully extended. Pads are 2" or 3" over that. I slide boat up on rubber backed bath mat on back of Excursion. !
For me to get kayak up in need a small step ladder for the final push up and forward. Wheels may be good thought about them for a while but more stuff to carry. Solstice can slide off to the side of pads if not careful. I think think the two Extremes are tad easier with the extra length. 22’ Libra XT is ok because I always have Edith with me.
Okay, I haven’t kept up with every post since yesterday, but I read what Celia says about height-of reach issues and there being no need for strenuous overhead lifting, and I agree 100 percent. The first thing I’d say here is that you don’t need to use the rack itself as your contact point when sliding. An auxiliary bar of some kind, built right into your rack, would make a world of difference. It would mostly likely be a lot easier to load from the side, with side-extender bars being your loading aids. This would eliminate the hard part of the loading job that you have now, as shuffling the boat it sideways and slightly higher to get it onto the saddles, with a typical rack spacing and average-length boat would have your overhead lifting at about 25 percent of the boat’s weight, and much less than that for longer boats. Another option I have described here many times is to build side bars for your rack, and extend those farther rearward than your main rear cross bar. Build a loading bar that can clip onto the rear end of those side bars, or mount it permanently (in that case, make sure it clears the rear hatch when it opens), and use that as your contact point for sliding. This would be lower than your saddles and being farther to the rear as well, it would make loading immeasurably easier than what you are trying to do right now. Another option would be to extend the side bars forward and put the slider bar on the front end of the roof. That would have the potential to work a lot better, as with enough forward extension (say, putting the slider bar right above the top of the windshield), you’d magnify the advantages of the method, as far as reducing the force of overhead lifting required. Yes, it would be unusual, but don’t hesitate to be inventive. My take has always been that if something is difficult, the thing to do is identify the problem and change what you are working with to make things easier.
I wonder if you have a suspension lift kit on your Excursion, because Wikipedia says the 4x4 model’s roof height is 77 inches, and of course the rack would be a few inches higher. I’m only one inch taller than you and yet I can easily reach much higher than you are describing in relation to your roof rack, that is unless you have lifted the suspension on that vehicle (with a very relaxed reach with both hands, my hands are centered at about 88 inches high). Still, if you need a step-stool, a large box would be much safer. Make it open on one side so that you can put stuff inside it when it’s in your car, thus eliminating wasted space.
No lift kit. Side loading is not possible the vehicle is to high. I see heights for Excursion 77" up to 80". I have side extender bars on the Yakima bars. A box is to small to do anything with. I have a small 3-6" or 4’ Werner commercial grade step ladder. Standing on the ground flat footed and reaching up to the end of the Yakima bar on side if the truck the bar is center of my palm. So add couple of inches to that you at my fingers. Look where the saddles are from the end of the vehicle in the picture. Figure the boat angle from there before it hit the saddles. Then figure the amount if the hull has to be past the saddles to give the saddles control of the hull. If you think the kayaks can be loaded nose first on the bar and then lift rear on to saddle it’s impossible to reach. When going from the sides add height of vehicle , bars, and saddle heights to the tips. Then you lose height as you have to reach in even if saddle us near side with tandem setup like I have at times. To control the hulls you can just have your fingers on the bottom of the hull. I need to hold rudder assembly on the sides. To lash the boat or put cockpit covers on I need the ladder and I am on the top. I also need a ladder to get front lines on boat to tie down the bow. Again I am reaching up and over to the bow. If I used an open box and packed it with stuff every time I need to use it I’d be emptying it. As far as my height compared to yours I can touch an eight foot ceiling on my toes. There is no practical way to extend side bars forward. When the Libra XT is on the excursion I have two foam blocks at the front near the windshield where roof is solid. I strap blocks that are glued together to the hull so they can’t fly off by chance from vibration. It’s a long way from front bar to bow top of Libra XT. There is no bar with towers made for front door area of Excursion or any Ford pickup which surprised me. When I load the Libra XT it’s on horses for high kayak stands behind the truck. I lift the front of kayak second person holds the back. I then go to back of kayak and shive it forward to near it’s pivot point. Then I have to get on ladder to let bow down a shove it forward enough on the saddles. I have to move the ladder few feet for the last push. Using the Amagansett wheels may help by flopping a mat on back of truck is much faster.
Being a mason for 48 years and contractor for 42 I am pretty good at lifting, strapping, hanging heavy precast, stones, and beams with rough terrain forklifts. Rolling, jacking , and prying copings and band stones where the only option is manuel labor. All this while not chipping any if it. That said I am always open to ideas here and on the job site. Thanks.
Paddledog52
I am not trying to have a fight here, but for other people figuring out ways to load a boat you keep making assumptions that are not quite correct.
The Amagansett (or similar) wheels take at most three minutes to pull out of wherever I have them, generally the back of the car, and position and tighten down the suction cup. That saves me the same amount of time lifting the boat towards the roof because that part goes so much faster. Let alone the weight carrying part.
Rear or side extenders similar to what Guideboatguy describes also end up being time savers when it comes to the part of finishing the lift and positioning of the kayak, for a similar reason. A friend an inch shorter than me was using a metal rod stuck into her round cross bar when I first paddled with her about 18 years ago to get her 70 pound plastic boat on the roof of a van. Bottom line, this kind of solution is time proven and there is a reason. Good enough that Yakima and Thule have copied the idea with extenders for thier racks. Roller or extenders, it gets the weight of the boat onto some support as early as possible to reduce the carry weight and fuss for the rest of the operation.
I also find that the glide pads in back make it hugely easier to get the boat pushed/pulled into final position over saddles, Like I said I tried the latter for a season. For loading solo it was costing me energy that I didn’t need to expend. For other than local drives I also do what an old hand said many years ago, two straps per spot rather than one. So the part of the boat on the glide pads is as solid as the part in saddles up front. And unlike rollers, the glide pads don’t leave little indents in the hull from tightening down.