@Celia said:
ExploreNE… once the legal dust has settled I would guess it could be about the same as driving after a DWI in insurance for the driver that lost the kayaks off the roof. But that is the easy part.
That is on top of probably paying out of pocket for the cars damaged and any personal liability. I suspect his/her car insurance outfit will say this is not a covered event.
From a legal point of view (ie ignoring any morality) any group of reasonable people in a court are going to find negligence . So one needs a defense–that defense would be following the manufacturers instructions.
If anyone finds a roof-top system instruction sheet that does not mention bow and stern lines, please chime in.
I personally have used a fixed length rope with 2 loops tied in permanently along the rope. Then I put a bungee cord between the loops. I leave the hood tie down installed all season. The rear tie down in the hitch. Its about as easy as using a strap.
My personal opinion is that those Thule Pulleys and Hooks are hazardous to me and my windshield, so I just use looped rope.
I don’t think I need bow and stern tie downs on the new trailer because the supports are 100% welded–no screws to come loose or factory rails that can be ripped off a car roof. But I have got a problem if I don’t get the straps right!
Unless I’m going around the corner to a local lake that’s a mile away, I always use bow/stern lines. I had a rack system come loose once with 2 sea kayaks on the roof while I was on the highway. Saved the boats, my wallet, and maybe someone’s life that was behind me.
Tiedowns are not just safeguards. A long boat takes on a lot of wind force. Independent double line at the far end of a boat helps absorb that so it doesn’t transfer to your rack as much.
Factory rails on my van have a fair bit of flex to them, I don’t want to exercise it too much. Aftermarket systems usually employ rubber pads of some sort so a small amount of play is always possible. A proper tiedown system is likely needed there too.
I use 2 bow lines for my Wenonah MNII canoe 100% of the time because they help significantly in a cross wind. I have a Yakima rack with the canoe stops which make for a secure ride, but passing semi’s at 70mph the bow lines stabilize the boat a lot. I have had a boat blow half way sideways once in my early paddling days when only using 1 bow line (in a U shape). Nothing bad resulted from it, but I learned although the single-line will prevent the canoe from flying away, it does not help with lateral forces. independent lines tied to each side are much preferred.
I carry my 20’ surfski upside down and backwards on a custom built 8’ rack with no bow or stern lines. The bow hangs off the back of the car almost 6’. The backwards configuration and shape of the surfski means the bow acts like a weather vane and naturally wants to pull the boat straight when at highway speed. Im sure to be 1000% safe a 3rd line would be fine but short of looping it through the passenger compartment there’s nowhere else to tie down, so I dont. Even in high cross winds, the upside down/backwards method means you hardly notice the wind
As above, I trinagle the bow line for the canoe. I don’t have the stops but found that by lining things up so the forward thwart was over the crossbar and could be strapped to it, and using the triangle bow line, nothing much moved.
I only use one long line though, I just put a knot in it in the center to limit sideways action. Seems to work.
My race canoes are 18.5 feet long. I often transport a 23 foot C4, and sometimes a 28 foot voyageur. No question using about tie downs. With the 18.5 ft or shorter canoes I usually do not use stern ties, bow lines only. As one boat dealer told me, I might think differently if I drive in reverse at 70mph. My bow lines are in that inverted “V” going to either side of my hood with loops, tightened sufficiently (but not over tight) using a trucker’s hitch. Doing so takes adds only 15 seconds to my time to secure the boats with straps. With the C4 on the way to the Yukon from the east coast in 2017 I encountered very high winds in the windy Canadian plains provinces. Add the wind from big rig trucks to the high cross winds and the bow of the canoe visibly flexed quite a bit. I had to stop to add other firmly tied lines from the bow back to the rack on the roof line. I had a trailer hitch mounted tower to secure the stern end.
I use bow and stern tie downs all the time, because the rack spacing on my extended cab truck is so much shorter than the boat length. My old Yakima “Mako Saddles” flex to absorb shock, and the boats rock forward and backwards without the ties.
I recently put tie down loops in the hood, and started using short tie down ropes. I had been tying to the front tow hooks below the bumper, but read of a guy who had his rope come loose and ran over the end, That broke his boat and damaged the vehicle. Now my ropes on the front will not reach from the boat to the ground.
@harry0244 said:
I use bow and stern tie downs all the time, because the rack spacing on my extended cab truck is so much shorter than the boat length. My old Yakima “Mako Saddles” flex to absorb shock, and the boats rock forward and backwards without the ties.
I recently put tie down loops in the hood, and started using short tie down ropes. I had been tying to the front tow hooks below the bumper, but read of a guy who had his rope come loose and ran over the end, That broke his boat and damaged the vehicle. Now my ropes on the front will not reach from the boat to the ground.
Exactly my problem too. Short rack, very long boat (20+ feet). With no straps there is rocking even with a 7 feet V rack.
Mounted under hood loops too. Among other things it makes for better strap angles than if I hook under the car.
I too use to attach bow tie downs to hook under chasis but worried about the same issue (coming loose and running over rope and snapping my boat in half). So I now tie to hood loops.
I have a pickup with the rear rack at the end of the bed so I don’t really get any boat twisting with wind or trucks passing. The only problem I’ve had with that arrangement was that because the rear saddle meets the kayak very near to the end of the boat where the hull cross-section is a narrow V, my old rear saddles barely touched the boat at all. I recently purchased the Thule Dockglide system which works great with my boat - better than any saddles I’ve ever owned actually. The rear saddle is kind of like a spring-loaded platform that automatically conforms to the shape of the hull and works fine at the end of the boat.
I’ve always run them except for short, slow trips. Like someone said above, its like seat belts, you don’t need them until you do.
So today I brought home a new P&H Cetus MV. I was surprised, I was only going for a test paddle. But I brought it home. There were some bad highway roads, nasty pavement at bridge expansion joints. After a few, I looked up. My boat had rotated about 10 degrees! I quickly check my bow line and then my stern line. Both were present. That made me feel a lot better. I got off the highway as soon as I could and fixed it all up.
I will never run without them again. Loosing a boat before I ever paddled it would really have sucked. (I paddled their demo Cetus)
I have carried 26’ shells on a Subaru Impreza for 500 miles. You can’t use bow/stern straps on a shell because if you get it tight enough to do anything it is likely to snap them. That leaves 5’ hanging out over each bumper.
If I don’t need it on that, I can’t imagine why I would need it for a kayak.
@wade@lippman.us said:
I have carried 26’ shells on a Subaru Impreza for 500 miles. You can’t use bow/stern straps on a shell because if you get it tight enough to do anything it is likely to snap them. That leaves 5’ hanging out over each bumper.
If I don’t need it on that, I can’t imagine why I would need it for a kayak.
I agree with you a hundred percent, but most here won’t
I carry two kayaks two to four times a year about 350 miles, for 27 years. I prefer having a visible guide as to whether anything is moving up there. Mistakes can happen in strapping down, regardless of the system you are strapping to, humans are imperfect. Or a strap can break (the reason I double strap for long trips).
Need for the bow line is something that is obviously debated per above comments. Preference for using bow lines really is personal choice and I don’t see any reason to argue about it.
I always use bow and stern tie downs. Safety first. Imagine your on the road and forever what reason your kayak or canoe comes off. Think of all the possible senarios. I had a surfboard fly off my roof some time ago and we were very fortunate.