I nearly always use a bow line to a hood loop. I don’t have an easy way to attach in the back on this car. I use separate lines over two places in front and behind the cockpit. This worked just fine, even when a part failed on the tower, clunking it down on the roof of the car. I was able to use another small piece of line to tie that tower in place and continue on the rest of the 1000 mile trip. I can fit three kayaks inside my class B camper van, so attachment is not an issue!
I am pretty new to kayaks and brand new to car-topping. My kayak shop swears I don’t need bow or stern lines, but the kayak is 12’ 6" and its on a Honda Accord with about a 28 (?) inch spread on the towers. Maybe I am wasting 5 minutes per trip but I am using bow and stern lines. YMMV.
@LarrySTL789 said:
I am pretty new to kayaks and brand new to car-topping. My kayak shop swears I don’t need bow or stern lines, but the kayak is 12’ 6" and its on a Honda Accord with about a 28 (?) inch spread on the towers. Maybe I am wasting 5 minutes per trip but I am using bow and stern lines. YMMV.
Good. Kayak shops often hire people who don’t know much.
Maybe you’re new to the sport right now, but you’ve got good judgment. That will serve you well.
In a different forum on a contentious thread, the OP made a point to advise two women with a new kayak to use a two point tie down on the front. I use front and rear single point tie downs myself and don’t see a clear need for a two point system. The rack retention system eliminates side to side movement and the tie downs are only required for up and down movement elimination.
You must have missed the part about their rack being 2 pieces of foam on a slick roof.
@RussSeese said:
…tie downs are only required for up and down movement elimination.
Can’t really agree with this - crosswinds can exert strong lateral forces on the bow of a boat, e.g. in the wake of a big truck, going over a bridge with strong side winds, etc. Not every rack system can put up with the torque created - some can, but not all. I use a single bow line as RussSeese does, but only because my rack system is unusually solid, with 2 V-bars bolted to crossbars, which are in turn bolted to the roof frame. Foam carriers can’t take this, obviously, so double bow lines are a good idea.
I had a strong lateral gust at the inception of a thunderstorm hit a boat with enough force to flatten out a pair of J-cradles (when I only had 1 V-bar). The boat remained on the car since the straps attaching it to the J-cradles went around the crossbars, but the boat was loose and the single bow line kept it from sliding away, i.e. it was restraining more than just vertical movement.
I once hit a deer coming back from the coast late at night. I didn’t have a rack at that time and my 17’ 52 pound sea kayak was on foam pads on the roof. I had to use 2 point inverted V tie downs front and back. The boat didn’t budge at impact.
Always have used front and rear tie downs for the canoes or the kayaks on all the vehicles over the years. Read or heard of bad legal situation if the boat comes off while driving and somebody or something other than your property gets damaged. Provides some additional security too in case something happens to the roof rack’s attachment to the vehicle. Peace of mind in cross winds too or other types of wind buffeting. Wonder what it’s like for the boats on top when you’re driving? Have someone else drive and stick your head out of the window. Make sure your holding onto any hat and your sunglasses are firmly anchored. Now try it in a driving rain when besides the wind, anything outside is striking rain drops at speed. Everything is putting a strain on the boats, tie downs, and the racks. Better to be safe than sorry.
One thing that’s a pain though…today’s vehicles may not have convenient places to place any hooks or whatever. Straps that go under the hood are a way out, but some vehicles do not have easy attachment points (my new RAM case in point). Tie downs can go all the over the hood and attach to something under the vehicle, but makes for a longer strap, will scratch the vehicles finish, and will require reaching or actually getting down under the vehicle a bit. Under hood straps can mar the finish over time too, so I taken 4" long pieces of clear fuel line, slit them lengthwise, and slipped them onto the hood edge where the strap is exposed. Funky looking, but working well over the years.
And always wear you PFD…
Bow and stern lines have nothing to do with your personal convenience. They have everything to do with the lives of the people in the cars behind you and your passengers.
If convenience is your thing, here are 3 easy ways to reduce bow and stern tie-down time to 3 seconds each:
(1) Attach the lines permanently to the bow and stern of your canoe or kayak. I use simple cam straps because they don’t tangle. They’re attached to the carry handles on my kayak. (Of course the carry handles need to be solidly attached to the boat.) The straps are run through slits in a square of closed-cell foam to protect the kayak.
(2) Leave hood loop straps permanently attached to your car. Replace when worn.
(3) If you have no simple place on the rear of your car for the hook of the cam strap, install a hook to the frame under the bumper. Whatever the configuration of your car, there is most likely an attachment solution.
With this system there’s no hunting for your straps, no untangling them, no installing them each time—and no excuse to not use them because it literally takes 3 seconds to attach them.
As for your hooks getting tangled in the antenna etc. (I had that problem too), shorten the straps and hook the S hook into the cam buckle before loading and unloading and it won’t do that.
Like many forms of recreation, canoeing and kayaking come with responsibilities toward others who can be impacted by our actions. Those responsibilities always take precedence over our pleasure and convenience. High-impact accidents happen even close to home and even at low speed, so speed and distance to the put-in are NOT reasons to forego bow and stern straps. Think of a kayak or canoe as a lethal missile. You don’t want it flying through the windshield of another car in a 30 mph head-on collision, let alone at highway speeds.
As for carrying a 26’ shell, the principle is the same: you have a legal and moral responsibility to make sure that what you’re carrying and how you’re carrying it doesn’t pose a threat to others on the highway. There are just too many reports of fatalities and near-fatalities involving car-topped boats to make any claim that bow and stern lines aren’t necessary. A simple google search for “bow and stern lines for carrying rowing shell” turns up a lot of information on safety, but no claims that bow and stern lines aren’t necessary.
@WaterBird said:
Bow and stern lines have nothing to do with your personal convenience. They have everything to do with the lives of the people in the cars behind you and your passengers.If convenience is your thing, here are 3 easy ways to reduce bow and stern tie-down time to 3 seconds each:
(1) Attach the lines permanently to the bow and stern of your canoe or kayak. I use simple cam straps because they don’t tangle. They’re attached to the carry handles on my kayak. (Of course the carry handles need to be solidly attached to the boat.) The straps are run through slits in a square of closed-cell foam to protect the kayak.
(2) Leave hood loop straps permanently attached to your car. Replace when worn.
(3) If you have no simple place on the rear of your car for the hook of the cam strap, install a hook to the frame under the bumper. Whatever the configuration of your car, there is most likely an attachment solution.
With this system there’s no hunting for your straps, no untangling them, no installing them each time—and no excuse to not use them because it literally takes 3 seconds to attach them.
As for your hooks getting tangled in the antenna etc. (I had that problem too), shorten the straps and hook the S hook into the cam buckle before loading and unloading and it won’t do that.
Like many forms of recreation, canoeing and kayaking come with responsibilities toward others who can be impacted by our actions. Those responsibilities always take precedence over our pleasure and convenience. High-impact accidents happen even close to home and even at low speed, so speed and distance to the put-in are NOT reasons to forego bow and stern straps. Think of a kayak or canoe as a lethal missile. You don’t want it flying through the windshield of another car in a 30 mph head-on collision, let alone at highway speeds.
As for carrying a 26’ shell, the principle is the same: you have a legal and moral responsibility to make sure that what you’re carrying and how you’re carrying it doesn’t pose a threat to others on the highway. There are just too many reports of fatalities and near-fatalities involving car-topped boats to make any claim that bow and stern lines aren’t necessary. A simple google search for “bow and stern lines for carrying rowing shell” turns up a lot of information on safety, but no claims that bow and stern lines aren’t necessary.
Something for you to think about:
If you are so close to me that you can’t brake in time to stop in an emergency then you are not driving safely and responsibly.
As full disclosure, I only use bow lines because I have seen too many loose stern lines dancing around wheel wells.
But I also have two straps on each location for the long trips. So four straps per boat before getting to the bow line.
All that said I disagree with the idea that driving at a responsible distance from others is a sure proof way to avoid 16 plus foot of boat finding a way to hit another car. At 65 plus mph, on a highway where all three lanes may have traffic in them, a very responsible distance from the car in front of you is 5 to 7 seconds. (I prefer 7.) But there may easily be a car in an adjacent lane that is also a safe distance from the one directly ahead of them, but only 2 or 3 seconds behind you. If a boat or a portion of one comes off the roof in wind and goes to the side, that car in the adjacent lane will not have enough time to avoid getting hit. Especially if they are in the fast lane that often has no or little shoulder.
Also, you cannot control someone behind you following too closely. Insurance and the law will view your kayak hitting them the same way regardless of whether they were driving too close. It came off of your roof and you are to blame.
I agree with Jack that not blindly trusting factory rails is often a good idea. That depends on the car and the number of kayaks being carried. Anyone trying to carry kayaks should check this out as part of choosing a vehicle.
But I don’t go with saying that staying a safe distance from other cars in front of you can avoid a nasty accident if the boat comes off. Unless you never ever travel on a multilane highway and you can always avoid bad drivers behind you.
With that much space someone will cut in front of you. I like the multi strap idea.
People do cut in front of me. Frankly if they are too impatient that is where I want them. Where I can see them, not riding my rear.
Can’t claim credit for the double strap idea, that was from Tom Bergh of Maine Island Kayak. But even for shorter trips I usually put a second strap at each Hullivator to make sure there is something that cinches the Hullivator cradle itself to both the cross bar and the rails. The Hullivator is robustly built, but I feel better with a reinforcement to the clip in back that secures it to the cross bar.
@JackL said:
Something for you to think about:
If you are so close to me that you can’t brake in time to stop in an emergency then you are not driving safely and responsibly.
There are possible scenarios where you’re driving safely and reasonably, you have to slam on the brakes suddenly due to someone else’s error, deer, etc., and the kayak dislodges from the roof rack or the rack dislodges and the kayak continues its forward movement. You have a better chance of avoiding that with bow and stern lines.
@Celia said:
At 65 plus mph, on a highway where all three lanes may have traffic in them, a very responsible distance from the car in front of you is 5 to 7 seconds. (I prefer 7.) But there may easily be a car in an adjacent lane that is also a safe distance from the one directly ahead of them, but only 2 or 3 seconds behind you. If a boat or a portion of one comes off the roof in wind and goes to the side, that car in the adjacent lane will not have enough time to avoid getting hit. Especially if they are in the fast lane that often has no or little shoulder.
But I don’t go with saying that staying a safe distance from other cars in front of you can avoid a nasty accident if the boat comes off. Unless you never ever travel on a multilane highway and you can always avoid bad drivers behind you.
All good points. Small chance that the kayak is going to fly off your roof and land safely in the ditch without hitting other vehicles. But don’t forget a head-on collision at 30 mph just driving around town. Safe driving helps. Bow and stern lines help even more.
Bow ties downs always for highway driving. At speed with a crosswind, especially if an 18wheeler passes, the kayak does not always want to fly the same direction the car is pointed.
I always used bow and stern tie downs on my (12’ and 13.5’) kayaks till one time i didn’t. I had the Thule crossbars, Thule J rack, and Thule saddles mounted on the tracks of a 2006 Escape. My husband was bugging me to hurry, and I knew the 135 kayak was well secured to my J rack. 200 miles down the road on the expressway my entire rack ripped off my roof. I was so lucky that nobody was close behind me. We were in the right lane so my boat skidded near the shoulder. Another car pulled over and, before we could back up, had angrily thrown my boat/rack off the road. I never went without tie-downs after that. It could have been a disaster.
@catfish228 said:
I always used bow and stern tie downs on my (12’ and 13.5’) kayaks till one time i didn’t. I had the Thule crossbars, Thule J rack, and Thule saddles mounted on the tracks of a 2006 Escape. My husband was bugging me to hurry, and I knew the 135 kayak was well secured to my J rack. 200 miles down the road on the expressway my entire rack ripped off my roof. I was so lucky that nobody was close behind me. We were in the right lane so my boat skidded near the shoulder. Another car pulled over and, before we could back up, had angrily thrown my boat/rack off the road. I never went without tie-downs after that. It could have been a disaster.
Catfish’s story should settle this question once and for all. I think four-point tie down should be the law. I’m sure there is a law that says something like “Cargo has to be securely fastened to the vehicle,” but since people don’t understand how that applies to canoes and kayaks, the law should be specific for car-topped boats.
@catfish228 Just wanted to make sure I had one part right. Is it correct that you had Thule footpads affixed directly into the track where a front to back factory rail might otherwise be? And then what pulled out were the footpads (thus taking everything with it)?
Or did you have the footpads attached to a front to back factory rail?
Or, option three, was it footpads mounted on the roof with an extension that comes around and grabs the top of the body above each door?
I have used two of the three above with older Ford vehicles. Am trying to figure out if factory rails pulled out.
Thanks.