Really?
Maybe you should take up knitting?
If I decide to take a snowy December or January paddle in lake Pend Oriel in Sand Point Idaho you believe I deserve to die?
And how is paddling this lake in the snow, wearing a dry suit, proper layering, neoprene storm hat, gloves and a PFD more dangerous than say rock gardening in rough seas in August?
Or an open water crossing in the ocean most any time?
Maybe a solo wilderness kayak trip?
Enjoy your winter knitting.
Kayaking the big lakes in the dead of winter is really less dangerous than most of my late season hunting. Heading out to snow shoe for that matter is more dangerous.
If I get stuck in the wilderness in the snow, with my truck fully loaded for an unexpected stay, I have a clock running on my lifespan.
I tend to be in areas where I don’t see any other people so how long can you shelter and keep a fire going in a snowy wilderness?
As when the air is warm, if I can stay with my boat I can get my butt to shore.
I guarantee I have more than one fire starting method with me.
Life is full of risk and I’ll take my chances in my yak in winter over the risk of walking around a large city at night.
Sharpsrifle: as far as all sports mentioned you should get your facts straight because hunting and the shooting sports in general are actually some of the safest pursuits bar none with regards to injury and death. You don’t need risky activities like winter kayaking or traipsing the remote wilderness all alone to have fun and there is a huge variety of activities that will entertain, provide activity and thrills that don’t expose you to that kind of risk. Which is why I don’t go on open water or rock garden even in the summer and despite living on an ocean-bay much of my paddling is done inland on flatwater.
Sing if you read my post I listed quite a few exercises that can be done in the winter that don’t involve the level of risk and razor thin margin of error that winter paddling does. You also need to understand that if avoiding obesity is your goal then we’re having the wrong argument because exercise doesn’t burn enough calories to help you lose weight and you need to do it so much that most people simply don’t have the time. Doing an all day 13 mile hike on varying terrain changes or a 17 mile paddle has logged about 1800 calories burned for me. FYI a normal sized muffin has 800-1000, a full sized Sundae 1,200-1,500 kcal. So while you don’t have to take much or any risk really to remain physically active, you cannot out-train unhealthy eating habits either so if weight is a concern focus on the eating, cut the carbs and eat mostly nonstarchy vegetables like leafy greens and whatnot.
I never said you need to knit or stay on the couch; these flawed jumps of logic that life is dangerous anyway are the kind of irrational rationalizations that people who engage in excessively risky and toxic activities use to justify their logically unjustifiable actions. Up until not long ago most tobacco users would say similar dumb things like “THE AIR IS POLLUTED ANYWAY” or “YA GOTTA DIE OF SOMETHING” ignoring the fact they would kick the bucket about 10-25 years sooner and have a much worse quality of life and more unpleasant death than average to boot.
I definitely keep myself in the risk averse camp. I got two kids. I have a WONDERFUL life. Life is so amazing and offers so many beautiful, gratifying, satisfying experiences on a daily basis I simply see such risk taking as illogical.
I’ve been told I am limiting my skills by all the hardcore people; I am not posting necessarily to disagree directly with them. I am posting to let the novices know that you can still go pretty far in this sport by taking very little risk and never venturing outside your comfort zone.
Nonsense. No advanced paddler earned that status by refusing to take on challenges or getting out of their comfort zone.
Hiding inside your comfort zone may keep you safe but it will also keep you stagnant. You’ll never experience the joy of expanding your skills and the sense of accomplishment earned.
Timid paddlers are not safe paddlers.
Alas I’ve gotten out 3 of the last 4 days and it is now officially winter not only in wv but in the whole northern hemisphere, The trips were mostly class II and a bit of class III whitewater (Birch, Top Gauley, New River below Glade Creek).
The air temps were between 30-50 degrees, I’m guessing the water is around 40 degrees. Despite all this I’ve heard no screaming voices. Well, maybe one voice, telling me to empty the large amount of cold water sloshing in boat because I had an unnoticed crack around the cockpit rim. I was more concerned this summer when I left the drysuit in wv and was paddling on Skagit, Cascade, and Nooksack (WA) in July. We were doing the easy stretches (class II-III) and even that didn’t instill confidence on glacial melt.
You gotta be prepared (yeah I was a boyscout). Cold water is the real deal. Complacency can kill you in the summer, especially if the water is cold. A paddling fatality is devastating. So stay safe, manage the risks (I passed up on some surf waves, and snuck a class III today), and paddle well within your skillset.
When the water is cold put duct tape over the cracks in your boat, wear a beany or balaclava, pogies are great, have someone help with zipper on your drysuit and stay closer than usual to your fellow paddlers.
All that works for me. You might need to stay home to feel safe.
Bottom line, I’m having a lot of fun and I like winter paddling but if I take a long swim then I’ll probably be wantin’ to stay home too.
Actually, back to knitting for you.
Yes shooting sports are safe.
We are talking environment here. If it’s the dead of winter and you have issues with your truck while in the woods, winter can kill you. It does get people all the time. How far can you hike in the dead of winter in knee deep snow? Maybe the wind blowing a little bit? Just like anything else I prepare for the worst the best I can and am more cautious than say in August.
See, instead of reading stories about some of those things, safe next to the fire, I’ve spent my life doing them.
Just because the temperature drops doesn’t mean I’m going to start hanging around town.
It is beautiful outdoors in winter. It’s quiet. The wildlife changes its behavior. There are less people also, big bonus. Hunting in fresh snow is great, especially tracking after you shoot.
A lifetime of working and playing outdoors year round and much of the play solo.
Just like anything else. Choose today’s activities by what you have going on outside. Prepare accordingly. Change up the plans if you need to.
As for traipsing around the wilderness alone, that is pretty much part if the definition of hunting, and my favorite place to be.
Just go outside and play.
Well this thread just took a sharp turn.
@CA, different waters for different folks. Feel free to stay in, but dont talk down to the hearty paddlers like they’re dumb or crazy. A decent point that cold water carries additional risks, but they can be safely mitigated with good judgement and adequate prep/gear for the most part. Naivete + cold kills (i.e. people in the news). Experience + cold is just another trip. you seem to dismiss that.
Mother nature is not a fair weather friend for many of us and we’re ok with that. indeed, she is my love. Often fickle and deserving of respect
I hear the call of the wild, often when its cold, rough, or otherwise ‘not nice’ out. Damn straight I answer.
Edit - Case and point; Sh*t happens, when you least expect it!
Erik had a swim in rapids in freezing water and chuckled about it. Skill and prep can overcome many harsh environments but a noob would be dead 10x over.
Yup. You called it. You can respect anyone who makes a “reasoned” decision for him/herself. But, when someone unilaterally deigns himself an arbitrator of what is “objective”, the “real truth” and who is “boneheaded” and deserving of “Darwin Award…” Well, that person is exhibiting pompous a$$ posting behavior and should expect to be called out for it.
sing
Holy extreme moly!! I walked out my door and startled a pair of moose. Guess I better stay in and play on line games and call door dash. Don’t want to win a Darwin Award for living where I do
It’s 65 and sunny here. I should be paddling. In the interest of harmony, I won’t.
Some years back, my buddy Scott, a kayaker, Eckilson, who posts his canoe fails here quite often, Aaron my son, canoeist and I, canoeist spent a slightly more than typical winter paddling day running a 3 mile stretch called Satans Kingdom in about 7 hours iirc. We had to use Scotts Jeep to get to the river, as the snow was several feet deep. The state police stopped at his house after seeing the jeep in the snow, only to be told by his wife that “Scotts out paddling”.
We stopped at Roostertail, a solid cl. 3 playspot with a recirculating eddy line, nice big hole, and several surf waves. Eck swam 7 times, Aaron 4. I was clean, and Scott as well. Ecks last swim still cracks me up in remembrance, it’s dark, it’s snowing, I hear him say “just one more” followed shortly after by the “WHOOOMP” of an actively flipped canoe. Finished up there, ran down to the takeout, and a week later my false pride at staying upright was dealt a cruel blow by several high speed flips into sub freezing water that stays liquid because it’s white.
Following this post, reading some guy saying if he wanted to stay upright he’d paddle a canoe, then seeing another who thinks he knows cold water paddling and seemingly insults those who practice it…well, it’s Christmas and I realize why I don’t follow this site much anymore.
I don’t paddle any more, heck hardly get out to pole these days. Down to 4 canoes, after having 13 boats from c1’s, squirtboat, diesel auxiliary sailboat and everything in between simultaneously. 18 years, 100-150 runs a year year round in New England down to PA and NY cured the itch, another 50-90 days out on my sailboat, tired of driving, working whacked hours, other hobbies, prefer just heading out the door on foot these days, but getting off subject here. Anyways, Merry Christmas Sing and String, and thank you for always writing within the boundaries of your knowledge.
Sharpsrifle, you ever head to Ct., give a shout. I’ll take you up to my club, we could talk and shoot, my latest passion. 18 boats previously, 18 guns now lol
Daggermat, with that armament, you better stay in that red area. I only have 4 guns and 4 boats. I’m leaning more towards shooting , at least this time of year.
I’m mostly reading this evening and listening to Christmas music. My wife is dipping various nuts in various chocolates , mostly to give to the neighbors. A peaceful evening before the crowd arrives tomorrow.
Retirement is coming, String, and we may end up being neighbors. Been looking at retirement states, and right now TN, KY, and SC are the top three.
Regarding that number, seems everything I do, i do with a passion. Good thing I quit drinking lol.
Merry Christmas to you and yours. Wife and I had a great time in conversation today, now I’m just relaxing watching Adams Family reruns and Janice is upstairs, no doubt watching conspiracy theory (or is it fact) vids on youtube. Best type of wife to have if you’re going to pursue the shooting sports, by golly!!
Edit…the shooting. First pistol was to shut Janice up…then son of a gun, what fun it was. I work in precision metal crafting (apache and chinook helos 14 years, and another 20 in turbines), and guns have that. Love loud things…, love the ironic relaxation and focus shooting provides. Love precision rifles, battle rifles, mahogany stocks on an M14, 1911’s, building etc…
Easier to carry than a canoe, drysuit, gloves helmet mukluks etc…no shuttle or shuttle buddy needed, ended up loving this activity. Joined a great club, got certified as an RSO etc…and found the gun owners I’ve met have replaced paddlers as the best people I know.
The only reason I mentioned a Darwin award is because life seems dangerous enough as it is without tempting fate through reckless hubris. Agreed that some of this risk can be mitigated with training but the real, infallible, 100% truth is that such risk can be 100% mitigated by simply not putting yourself in the position and doing something else when conditions are inclement. You always have to take some extra risk no matter what you do but when the risk climbs that high isn’t it easier to just do something else, Spring will come once again.
Speaking of the gun thing I have friends who spend all kind of time and money on Precision rifles and reloading. But on the outside of that I see you can buy a 1,000 yard capable gun for less than $1000 and ammunition at 50 cents a round that will ring steel gongs at that distance all day long (see Palmetto State AR-10 and Sellier and Bellot 6.5 Creedmoor). Out of the box, just like that. You don’t have to worry about mixing powders or screwing something in wrong and blowing up the gun and should anything bad happen if you use all factory built components the odds that the deeper pocket (the company who made the gun and ammo) will take the hit are far better, not that shooting is that risky as borne by the numbers. We live in a day an age when you can have just about anything you want at a very limited amount of cost, effort and risk. Have you read about the Pareto principle (80/20)?
I wonder what percentage of winter kayakers have children that are either long since grown, or are child-less.
Daggermat yes people in the shooting sports tend to be nice but it also attracts its share of cranky old redneck types that like to bust balls. No offense meant but my children simply won’t go to any of the clubs and prefer the private indoor ranges due to the “old fat cranky rednecks” busting our balls. I get it’s about the safety but when someone who supposedly has certification is acting all high and mighty because we’re loading a Winchester Model 92 with the action closed or a 22 tube fed by pointing it vertically and not down range speaks volumes about how their knowledge is much more limited than their certifications would purport. I think the reason you feel it’s chill is because you’re an RSO and you are already part of the “inner club” so it’s basically a one way range for you and you can have anyone you want thrown out of the club for giving you the what for that you might actually deserve!
But here’s the thing. People read this forum. Even though we are at record low levels of crime and shooting the powers the be have decided to try and ruin the shooting sports like they have done in more than a few Blue states and are trying in Red states. (see CT!!!) They want to ban “assault rifles” even though rifles in general only kill 400 people a year when hands kill 6-800 and household tools easily twice that. WTF?
With this ever more safety minded society (whether well deserved or not), do you really want to encourage people to go out and put themselves in this position? The world is reading this, how many freezing or drowning victims do you think it will take your state to make you register your kayaks, get a license, pay extra fees. Look what happened in Canada and how they stepped up enforcement after just once child drowned recently in a Canoe accident. Government bureaucracy is hungry and is looking for its next meal, it can never get enough…
You’re most welcome to stay in your safe space, CA139, but no need to pontificate to those who wish to live their lives to the fullest, taking on new challenges and refining/learning skills.
It would be great to meet you. We have a tradition of sitting by the tree and listening to Christmas music. Now she is putting the candy away and I’m off to finish wrapping presents.
What was that about old, cranky rednecks? I qualify for that in some circumstances.
Old and cranky are stereotypes , sort of. Depends on the day and the stressors. Like obnoxious Yankees, idiot drivers, 3 little boys non-stop in my house , and gun freaks who argue that weapons of war are normal sporting equipment.
But, Yankee as I used it is also a stereotype.
Happy New Year!
This site beats the safety horse regularly, I’m confused where the soap box comes from…
Your ideas of safety and risk sound reeeeeeeeeeally lame to me.
In 2013, there were 505 deaths in the US due to accidental or negligent discharge of a firearm.
Were there also 505 deaths due to winter kayaking? I guess the number is a lot lower.
Now you will probably claim that those 505 victims didn’t take proper safety precautions before entering into their shooting activity. And I will make exactly the same claim about any winter kayaking fatalities, so that will get us nowhere.
CA139
If you think reloading is done strictly for cost savings, you don’t get it, also you don’t get 1000 yard accurate ammo for 50 cents a round. That is cheaper than the brass most F-class shooters use. Also “rednecks” aren’t found on a range often, especially a city one. I assume you are a city dweller by the indoor range availability and the use of the term redneck as a derogatory term. You will find a guy from small towns typically do their shooting out in the woods. Rednecks would be from small town America for your info.
It seems that reloading, kayaking outside of bluebird days or anything else with a risk to it are off limits to you. That’s fine but please keep your self righteous better and smarter than the rest crap to yourself. Some people understand that kayaking any day has a degree of risk. Getting into your car has risk. You feel these are reasonable risks that you have educated yourself for and have taken appropriate precautions for. Redneck is not a term interchangeable with an ass from the city.
Some people do the same prep and do things that scare you. Get over it. I would bet more people die in mountain bike accidents every year than from exposure during winter kayaking.
Some of us want to live life and enjoy what it has to offer. Beats getting fat waiting for summer. Beats finding activities in town around crowds of people. Beats the hell out of going on the internet, finding a group of people who enjoy an activity and saying they deserve to die for how they choose to enjoy the day.
Awful to say, but hang around this site long enough and you will see most of the water-related fatalities. Here is the latest in my area.
This one is particularly sad, but not unusual. From my experience, it is extremely rare to see a weather-related fatality involving an experienced paddler with a PFD and proper cold water gear. The only one I can think of recently is Douglas Tompkins, the founder of the North Face and Esprit clothing brands, who died in a kayaking accident in the Patagonia region of Chile. I’m sure there are others, but it doesn’t happen very often. In fact it almost never happens.
I agree that we should not be encouraging inexperienced boaters without proper gear to go out in difficult conditions, but I don’t think anyone here does that.
By far the most dangerous thing that we do every day is getting in the car and driving somewhere. I am much more likely to get hurt driving to the put-in than I am paddling in winter.