I’m with ya Tom
Years ago I was almost killed in my Subaru when rear ended on Washingtons deadliest Highway. My wife was a Trauma specialist at Harborview for six years. I now drive a 3/4 ton Dodge Cummins with nearly 400k on the clock. (had since new) Been rear ended half a dozen times…worst that happened was I spilled my coffee…no damage to the truck…major damage to the cars! Hit head on on ski hill road, Alta Wy. Christmas day 4 years ago by drunk ski patroller in Toyota truck. His truck totalled, mine fixed with no frame damage. Full on airbag gig…not fun…dude was an ass…he could have killed me and no big deal, but he almost killed an avalanche dog (beautiful yellow lab). Now that woulda been a sin!!! Big Dodge does it all. Hauls all the gear and boats the Subies can’t, NEVER fails me, gets 20 mpg and cost per mile has beat the hell outta any Subaru I’ve owned including fuel. Ya gotta do the big math problem on the car deal and not just focus on fuel economy. Not gonna go far on BC or Ak roads full of gear and boats in your hybrid toyota! What’s best is what meets the most of your needs most of the time, and keeps you alive. Happy motoring! Be safe. Better to die on the water than the damn freeway.
hitech european diesels
how about this engine in a big aerodynamic station wagon. Scroll way down to the Ford/Peugeot 2.2liter four cylinder turbodiesel engine. It’s got 7injectors per cylinder. 175hp, 330ft/lb torque. That would drive like a big old V8.
http://www.greencarcongress.com/engines/index.html
Need to keep total picture in mind
Your diesel gets 20 mpg highway, which many people would consider unacceptable no matter how much weight it can tow or carry. Another factor is the sheer size of the thing. If someone needs to use the same vehicle for kayak-hauling AND commuting to the city, maneuvering a big truck and parking it will be harder. I won’t consider owning a full-sized truck because they feel like barges to me, and I don’t even commute to the city. I don’t mind driving someone else’s occasionally; I just wouldn’t want to have one day in and day out.
Also, it will get crap for city mpg compared with those small cars you seem to detest. (I am playing devil’s advocate here, because I love trucks for their flexible space and camping applications as well as carrying/towing abilities.)
Then there’s the stink and loud rattling. No matter how much they’ve improved since “the old days”, diesels still stink and rattle. Much more so than any other type of passenger vehicle engine.
Not All
Not all diesels get 20mpg or less than that around town. Not all of them are noisy. And, not all diesels are in trucks.
I drive a small diesel station wagon and average 50 on the highway. The least mpg I have ever noted was 41 which was after a 4.5 hour 80 mile per hour run. The wagon weighs considerably less than 3500 lbs but handles two long boats without issue, (don’t know that they are up there unless I look through the sun roof.).
Recently put new software in the computer and raised the hp from 100 mfg spec to 142 shown on the dyno. Have not seen any change in the mpg. I have a new 5th gear that I am planning to install changing the final drive ratio to improve mpg further, (dyno confirmed torque up from 178 to 239 so it will handle a taller final gear.).
Happy Paddling,
Mark
F-150 expensive!
I drove an F-150 with a 5.0 (302CI) V8 and it typically got around twenty MPG on the Highway. With two canoes on the roof, going down the interstate at 70-75mph, it got 12. Dropping to 60-65, it got 13.5. This was an expensive trip to Florida!
mileage
On a trip to Algonquin from Ottawa, we had two vehicles: a Civic with a single kayak and a Ford pickup with two kayaks on top.
When we calculated out the gas expenses, the Civic beat the pickup hands down.
I’m sure the Honda got worse gas mileage with the kayak on top than it would have done without, but it was still better than the truck (which gets about 30mpg empty and 27-28 loaded).
I’d go for the vehicle with the best possible gas mileage, with the caveat that you still need some “performance” with a boat on top. I think most modern cars can give you what you want. (Well, maybe not a Smart Car. )
–
Darryl
small cars
I drive a Mazda Miata…(convertable)…
I strap My 14 ft CD Breeze on the top and Cruise at 70 MPH…If I use any extra Gas…Who cares…2–or 3 $$$ extra of gas…is acceptable…I do not notice any Drag On my car…Heck the Kayak is 6 inches longer than My Car…When I get to where I’m Going its a free ride Downstream…The Portage cost more than the Gas…If You wanna Paddle yer Boat…then Factor in a Couple of Dollars…Its still a Bargain…
and I love the Looks I get…LOLOL…Ken
Shut Up And Paddle
In general, an honest assessment of what percentage of our annual miles are actually driven with boats atop the roof will determine the appropriate vehicle. 5%? 10%? 20?
As others have already said, the fuel saved driving even a modestly efficient vehicle for the OTHER 80-90% will typically more than pay for the occasional loss of economy while hauling boats.
Few of us paddle as much as we think we do, just as the vast majority of pickups I see on the roads (ostensibly purchased “for haulin’ stuff”) are typically hauling nothing but a*s. Most S.U.V.s are used for neither Sports nor Utilities, and despite the cool commercials showing Jeeps chewing up Kilimanjaro, you probably don’t need AWD do go to the mall.
Like wearing a Gore-Tex expedition jacket to the office, most vehicles are purchased as lifestyle declarations, and have little to do with actual usage. My 10-foot-long, 14-year-old, 35-MPG Japanese hatchback easily hauls my 15-foot kayak and all the camping gear I need for a multi-day trip. Sure, Blue Book value is HALF the purchase price of my boat, but the money I save on payments, insurance, fuel, and maintenance is more than enough to buy a new boat each year.
Buy realistically, consume modestly, pollute sparingly. And perhaps there will be something left of this world for our kids to enjoy …
Don’t detest small cars at all
In fact I love BMW’s. Very tight, safe, and efficient, long lived machines. Big truck is loud, and stinky at times, and only makes sense for my type of use. Would be silly for you perhaps…I just offered another perspective.
my trip this weekend
Got 33mpg driving to Key Largo and back (650mile round trip) this weekend with a surfski up top at 75mph. Would normally get about 35mpg without the boat up there at that speed. Have gotten as bad as 29mpg when the roof is really loaded up and I try to drive fast.
Last year I drove to Boone and back with a sprint k1, a mountain bike, and a surfski up top and got 35mpg while averaging about 65mph. Normally I get about 36-37mpg if I maintain speeds in the 60-65 range.
I drive an ION with 2.2L I4 that has 140bhp and five speed manual. I’m very light on the throttle and tend to get better than EPA rating.
I’ll take a small hit on mileage when hauling stuff since 90% of my driving is done with nothing up top.
I used to drive an IH Scout Traveller with a 345 cubic inch V8. Got 16mpg around town and 17-18 mpg on the highway regardless of cargo with that old low compression V8. But that mileage is still half what the Saturn gets. So what if I could load up without lowering my fuel economy. When I switched to the Saturn I was just about able to swing the entire car payment with the monthly savings in fuel.
Your model works for you
and that’s cool. I don’t disagree with anything you say. It depends on your needs. My life and work have me hauling almost daily, and no car will do that. Would I be smart to buy an old econobox for the occassional round town drive? Or would putting a Biodoesel tank at my home be better. I’ve thought about many options and have come to the conclusion that few small cars will help me much. My wife has an older subaru legacy that can get us 30 mpg with nothing atop. The truck gets used for work. 07 diesel will be MUCH cleaner as well, and we’re seeing a lot more Biodiesel influence out west. My truck can run the stuff, but there’s reality there too. It’s got storage and quality issues and can do great damage to older engines as it’s a solvent Still, theres lots of positive stuff going on. Where you live also influences things.
My experience…
I can offer a few reference points:
Mercury Villager minivan without canoe at 70mph 23 mpg highway
Mercury Villager with one tandem canoe at 70 mph 20 mpg highway
Mercury Villager with two tandem canoes at 70 mph 16 mpg highway (there was a very noticable difference between one and two canoes)
Honda Civic without canoe at 70 mph 35mpg highway
Honda Civic with one WW kayak at 70 mph 32 mpg highway
Honda Civic with solo canoe at 70 mph highway 29 mpg (it did not have any issues keeping this speed)
Very true
If you burn good quality fuel and add a diesel conditioner, most modern diesel cars do not stink, and hardly smoke at all. In fact, they run pretty clean once the engine is warm.
I run 8 oz per tankful of Diesel Kleen in my fuel, and it noticeably improved the smoking on acceleration/deceleration (VW's don't smoke much to begin with).
Given my experience at 52K miles so far, I may never own another gasoline powered car. The large increase in efficiency and longer engine life are just too good to pass up in the long term.
Wayne
No kidding
That’s why I specifically referred to “YOUR diesel”, meaning spray’s diesel truck that gets 20 mpg. My post was not addressed to you, as you can see from the indentation.
Anybody living in this decade knows there are diesels that can get high mpg. But they are not in big trucks.
4 bangers are notorious for blowing
head gaskets and warping heads when they are worked a little harder than intended, or even under normal loads. A V6 has the power capacity needed for hauling light boats, whether on top or behind, and will serve you better and cost less in the long run. The slight mileage difference is inmaterial. Remember that 4 cylinders have to crank at a much higher rpm to attain the power that 6 cylinders will produce at a lower rpm, and that the 4 will use more gas under load, and produces more heat, and causes more wear on engine parts. Good luck, and happy paddling!
Engines and what not
As someone with automotive background and education i have to say mickjetblue is way off. Some 4 cylinder motors live to be 400 km’s old with moderate and occasional hard use if maintained semi-properly. Some V6’s are prone to self destruction without abuse. Boo hoo. it all depends on the actual motor and how it was used and maintained.
My 94’ Firefly with a 50hp 3 cylinder definetely loses a couple MPG on the highway but still gets very decent mileage, and considering how little of the total usage of any vehicle is with the kayak on the roof, the mileage loss is negligible.
The extra drag seems to affect the car’s performance more than gas mileage, go figure-feels like it’s dragging a piano over 60 km/h. Gas mileage went from a typical 450-470 km/tank to about 410 with a kayak on the roof half the time. I believe something like a Toyota Echo would do just fine with a kayak on the roof on the highway.
Thank you for being kind,
as people who disagree with me usually say much worse things about me than being “way off”. And, to think about it, maybe I was generalizing too much. I think my point was more about work loads from start and stop driving, and going up hills, or even mountains. It is much less related to driving on a flat stretch of highway from point a to point b with few stops on the way. I have had to deal with 2 head warpage problems in the past, and did the work on the first myself, except for the head machining. I’ve heard from others about warpage in a head from using the a/c on a long trip with a 4 cylinder engine. Some are better than others, that’s for sure. The newer ones should be better. Happy paddling!
I think they make them sad.
A man who saves money on a small car so he can buy an expensive kayak obviously loves that kayak more than the car, and don’t tell me the car doesn’t notice. Straps “accidentally” start coming loose on the highway, and the kayak is left behind, a mass of splintered fiberglass on the asphalt. Cain and Abel all over again.
i had a motorbike like that once…
the first year i started riding in the states i had the option of buying a 1979 yamaha 600 or a 1980 yamaha 600 full dress.
i went for the naked one and rode it for a year only to find out i needed someplace for my stuff.
the next season (this was in minnesota) i traded it in for the full dress.
i swear that machine hated me for not choosing it first.
they were both purchased from a long time friend of my father’s (they were on the fire department together) so at least i had someone to fix it. on fact, he happened to be stationed at the fire house near where i lived so it wasn’t a long push when it came to that.
finally he got so tired of all piddly stuff he took it back for an “overhaul.” i had by this time mentined on several occasions that i thought the bike was holding a grudge. being a pragmatic, spock-like sort of guy he laughed and said that was ridiculous, it was a machine.
he his thing, kept it for a few weeks and rode it around to make sure everything was set to go, and then called me to come fetch it, which i did with glee.
not more that half a mile from his house the thing quit on me. this was long before i had a mobile phone so all i could do was hope someone came by soon.
well, as luck would have it someone did, and it was him. he stopped and looked at me and all i could do was shrug my shoulders. he looked the bike over and it ended up being one end of the tiny hose that creates the fuel intake vacumn had come off its dohicky. he stuck it back on and it was fine.
“see, it hates me,” i said. at which point he grudgingly conceded that, machine or no machine, i may have a point.
The question should’ve been ;
How does my car affect my kayak !
Well every time I have to tow my piece of junk ford out to the middle of the lake to dump it !
It always seem to slow me down about 2 or 3 knots !