May Tools Help? Great thread! I know its old now, but wanted to toss in some thoughts anyways.
First - Most paddlers have no idea there is any other paddling technique other than using their arms. Awareness is the first step. A good way to start is to ask a simple question like “Whose arms are tired?” with a follow up like, “There is a better way to paddle. I can show you if you are interested.” Some will show an interest others just do not care.
There were a couple of milestones that made a big difference for me when learning good technique:
wing paddle
Rudder
Wing Paddle - I broke my flat blade paddle and was forced to use my wing full time. I had thought my technique was pretty good. The wing paddle quickly showed how much better it could be. The wing paddle punished flaws and rewarded good strokes. Would it be too unreasonable to teach someone with a wing paddle right from the beginning? I know most of you will say yes, but I think it may be worth a try. I now feel so insecure with a standard paddle that I will never go back.
Rudder - Once I overcame the stigma and started using a rudder full time my technique and speed improved dramatically. The rudder allows one to focus on good forward stroke and ignore using the paddle for steering. Rudder strokes, leaning, bracing and rolling could wait until the afternoon session.
I know it is radical, but I suspect a school or instructor that put newbies into narrower kayaks with rudders and wing paddles and taught forward stroke technique ahead of all else would create some fine paddlers in short time. Many of these paddlers would be faster and more efficient on their first day than many paddlers are after years of arm pulling.
I don’t expect this to happen any time soon. The BCU and other formal instruction organizations seem to be more focused on safety skills. They do not encourage the use of rudders and/or wing paddles. Could it be that the current instruction phlosophy and the equipment they encourage does more harm than good as far as teaching goos forward stroke.
I may try this technique with a brand new paddler one of these days. The first hour may be more challenging, but it could prevent years of breakingslow refin
Okay here is another radical idea that may be worth a try for those that just do not seem to be getting it. I’ve heard someone say, “pretend you are holding a beach ball between your arms while paddling.” Why not actually do that? Place a beach ball between their arms. This should allow them to place the paddle in the water appropriately but the only way they can stroke is by rotating their torsos. Stupid? It would sure look stupid, but just may work.
posture the paddler would have to sit up and not lean back against the back band. That’s as fundamental as a cyclist not riding with fixed arms/elbows. Until the paddler decides to sit up they aren’t going to do the twist.
bury the blade - pull the blade - I am a bit confused , To bury seems a bit deep , and pushing the blade foreward work alot better than pulling , they go further w/each stroke and more force is placed on the blade when extended into the water for it’s greater surface area good things begin to happen . There is also a phycological reason for stayin in the back sometimes . But that’s something else , try getting them to the front on a water break or a tow an have em lead off w/ya . Strange things happen when folk don’t have to "catch up ". That’s all --------M
Humiliation The first long paddle I went on with a group in SINKS we started out pretty fast ; I was in a Heritage Seadart Sit on Top and I was working hard to keep the pace. One of the trip leaders showed me how to draft behind his boat (something I knew a bit about from biking on long fast trips) and I managed to hang on, after about 10 miles the fast paddlers ran out of gas and I was just fine but I sure dreaded being towed. I few months later I went on the same trip and a guy in a very fast seakayak ended up getting coached and conjoled and finaly towed the last several miles through wind and chop until we got into the bay. He was thouroughly humilated … never saw him on a trip again. I think it’s much better to slow down to the speed of the slow paddlers or make sure you go out on just a short trip to make sure everybody can keep up before you try a long trip on the open coast or a crossing with somebody who’s going to flame out.
Oh for goodness sakes. You people just take this way to seriously. This is supposed to be fun not rocket science. If you are training hard core competition I can see it but for your average Joe or Jane it’s a lot of BS.
While agree that some take all of this way too seriously, I also think SEA kayaking can be SERIOUS fun.
I would hate to be out there doing a crossing with someone, with wind, waves and current picking up, to discover s/he can't hold his/her own. What was intended to be fun is now turning into something potentially dangerous... This isn't paddling a small inland lake in the middle of summer where you can bail by paddling to the nearest shore, or swim to the nearest shore if you have to. Even on some large inland lakes, it's a little hairy to have to snap on a tow to get someone to shore because you can see that fast approaching T-storm...
At the same time, I think partner selection is important as well as trip selection. I think teaching the basics should be relegated to practice sessions (where bail out is easy or not an issue) and trips are the times to refine what was taught or learned.
Yes. This is about fun and we should find ways to keep it that way and not become to grim or overbearing. But for those who forget or discount the element of danger in this sport, well, like I said, partner selection is important.
sing
PS. It's usually not the "hard core" type that gets into trouble. It's the casual or beginner type with no awareness, limited knowledge and skills who find him/herself suddenly "over his/her head."
Two recent trips I have been on two trips recently where a relatively new paddler could not keep up with the core group. The first 5 miles or so were fine, but the last 7-10 were difficult for all of us. You are supposed to have fun - # 1, and one way is to participate in a day trip of 10+ miles - that is why these beginners wanted to come along. I know when I started I worried about being able to paddle 10+ miles. I found out it was not a problem, but I have paddled with some who struggle doing five miles in calm conditions and yet want to go on longer day trips with a group. It is not a problem for the group to slow down to the speed of the slowest paddler, but when conditions deteriorate it is often best to get back and off the water as soon as possible. This frequently happens when the beginner is completly spent. Maybe a tow is in order, but some resist this and so we all plod along trying to get the struggling paddler back.
I applaud this post. A good forward stroke, learned over time, will help one become a better paddler and able to keep up with a group. Those who want to participate at this level will usually seek instruction, either formal or informal. Who knows what happens to those who don’t. My experience is that they don’t continue to come out with the group. Maybe it isn’t fun and they quit the sport (it’s hard work to paddle inefficiently) or maybe they continue on paddling by themselves?
I always try to motivate. On a trip, if someone sees me doing some maneuver they don’t understand and ask me about it I will teach. If not, I am content to just paddle and observe.
Good Moderate Approach. “always try to motivate. On a trip, if someone sees me doing some maneuver they don’t understand and ask me about it I will teach. If not, I am content to just paddle and observe.”
the feet! Haven’t heard mention of the power of the stroke by pushing on the foot pedals by each foot in concert with the arm on that side. That helps rotate the body correctly.
Ok I have been dully chastised ;o) There is an important safety issue here that I over looked. And as with a lot of things a better ability will increase the experience.
The feet? The hips? In my (vast experience, good foot pressure on the pegs is the result of good style, not a cause.
In particular, if I wind up fully at the hips, then my catch-side knee will bend to accomodate to hip rotated forward on that side, the other leg will straighten to accomodate the hip rotated backwards. As I catch and power from the hips, my catch-side leg will automatically straighten as that hip moves backwards, thus pushing that foot into the peg. All I think is: rotate the hips, now un-rotate them to power. The leg and foot action follows with little or no thought.
Before I learned this, I would try to keep thinking of my legs and feet, but would frequently forget. Now I concentrate on the hips, which I rarely forget, and just note the legs and feet doing the correct thing almost on their own.
It’s Not Chastising… I had to go through the same level of developing awareness and skills as I got myself into more challenging stuff. It’s scary stuff to be paddling back to a put-in, at the end of a trip, and find a strong off shore, head wind is not only slowing one down to a snail’s pace but that any attempt to rest/stop paddling means lost ground and a further push back out to sea.
Winter and kayakPro I just purchased a paddling machine from Kayakpro. This is deemed to be the best way to learn the correct paddling stroke. Also, it makes winter paddling a lot warner if not as fun.
Because there are many who hate to be the last but don’t know what to do!
There’s a difference to “motivate, trick, swindle, cajole, force, shove, etc.” to learn the TECHNIQUE, than to “motivate…” them to go faster. Sure, there’re some who doens’t WANT to go faster at all. But I bet there’re many more who wants to but don’t even know they’re paddling inproperly. Those are the ones that need to be convinced their should take a forward stroke class rather than spending a lot of time in the gym with lots of weights! Racers will hit the gym AND take classes. It’s the casual paddler who’re chronically slow that could benefit MORE in proper technique because they can enjoy MORE of the sport.
Some people makes good instructors because they understand the difference in every individual and can tailor instruction for each student. Others make poor instructors because they think everyone else is just like them. David is right in bring the issue of TEACHING to the front.
with just the thigh braces. I've rolled boats for way bigger folks. Rather than play with their fittings, I just wedge my knees/thighs against the sidewalls and roll. My feet aren't even touching the pedals. I find that if I have contact through the thighs and knees, that's enough for me to roll most boats.
Tight hip fittings are more necessary in white water and surf boats where quick directional changes are part of the game. Here you want a really snug cockpit to tranmit body english quickly. For general touring, it really isn't needed.
Now, putting paddle to the water … This string really caught my attention … on Monday my wife and I will take our first kayak lessons. We are pretty adept canoers and are hoping to start kayaking on the right foot (foot? hmmmm?). Having not kayaked before, we are going into this with no bad “arm” habits.
Is it the consensus of the contributors to this string that we should:
Choose to learn on narrower kayaks. The place we are going typically teaches using fat plastic super-stable SINKs. They also have “Carolinas”(?), which I believe we could request.
Find an instructor who will start his (her) instruction by emphasizing the right “catch”.
With the catch understood, then combine that with the appropriate hip rotation.
Empower the instructor to smack us upside the head with his paddle, if we revert from hip rotation to arms.
How open do you think a kayak instructor will be to a neophyte telling him how the neophyte wants to be taught?
experience, good foot pressure on the pegs is the result of good style, not a cause.