Good point about the confusion. I have what I call a snack hatch on my Prana. It’s directly in front of the cockpit and easily holds a couple of snacks, my phone, and a couple other small items.
The day hatch is directly behind the cockpit and of good size. Easily accessible and no impediment to reentry.
Hi Abbyg,
One of the best pieces of advice I received when getting into kayaking was to at least sit in the boat and see how comfortable it is before you buy.
Make sure there is enough room for your long legs and your feet.
Also, as a woman, I find the wider kayaks annoying to paddle - my paddle shaft hits the side of the kayak, or I have to exaggeratedly move my body from side to side as I paddle. Maybe your being tall helps with that, it’s just something to think about.
Because you plan to paddle in some bigger lakes, I would say be slow to dismiss the value of having flotation at BOTH ends of your kayak, something that none of the four models you mentioned has but the Hurricane Santee 110 suggested by rival51 does. A capsized boat with flotation at only one end will assume a vertical orientation in the water if the cockpit fills up, making it impossible to get back in and impossible to swim the kayak through the water in a desired direction. And often the flotation will not be enough to float both the kayak and a person, so grabbing on won’t necessarily help you stay afloat.
I noticed the Santee also only weighs 38 pounds. None of the four models you mentioned is exactly lightweight (44, 47, 50, and 55 lbs).
BTW, I like that the Edge 11 has an adjustable skeg and the self-rescue straps, and can be used with a spray skirt. But 55 pounds is not exactly lightweight! And if you are paddling in conditions where you might need those self-rescue straps, or the tracking-assist function of the skeg*, you really should have a kayak that also has flotation in the bow so you don’t risk being stuck swimming with a kayak that has aimed its bow at the bottom of the lake and can neither be re-entered nor even swum to shore.
Sorry for the long post!
P.S. - Even if you stay close to shore while paddling in a big lake, you can get in trouble if the wind picks up suddenly and unexpectedly, in a direction away from the shore. If you capsize, the wind will push your kayak farther and farther from that shore that seemed so close, and you will have to decide between staying with the kayak (and possibly ending up in the middle of the lake with a vertical kayak) or swimming for shore while the shore is still close by.
Congratulations on your new boat!
Ah, the twisting is me reaching back to open and close that hatch. I expect that I can get it open but closed is another thing. On land it takes some pressure applied in the right place to complete the seal. The covers are likely original and have the NDK logos and are in good shape. The previous owner was/is a fan of 303. The hull is so slick that I need to be careful and in close control when loading & unloading - Thule glide pads & a floor mat on a 2015 Forester.
The volume of that compartment is bigger than I expected. At a rough measurement (excluding calculus and buckets) it’s around 28 liters.
Thanks
It has been on the pcom classifieds for a while. In the Grand Rapids area & I suspected that I might know the owner. I have two very functional kayaks but I’ve signed on to one of Michael Gray’s isle Royale trips next summer & the Delphin is a bit too small (and maybe slow) & I’ve never really trusted the seal I can get on my Arctic Tern’s hatches. I wasn’t sure about the LV but I have gotten more & more comfortable with lower decks over time & can get in & out of Ocean style cockpits so it was worth a try. The seller did turn out to be someone who I know from WMCKA & we set up a meeting at a lake near her. The fit & the hull felt comfortable so it came home with me on Monday. The only LV issue that I need to solve is the foot pegs. I may just need to add 4" of foam the the bulkhead.
That’s great.
Gosh, I’ve never looked through the classifieds here. Not that I need another boat, but…
It shouldn’t take that much twist. I open and start pounding down again from a spot towards the outside and about 2/3 of the way back.
Scroll down and you will see that Delta refers to this “pod in front of the cockpit” as a day hatch. I’ve never heard this called by any other term.
https://www.deltakayaks.com/delta-14/
It’s good advice to think through how you plan to use your kayak now, what you can afford, and how you will load it on your car, and if your legs and feet will fit comfortably in your cockpit. I completely agree that a boat with sealed bulkheads is so much safer than one without–if you capsize or get swamped, you want your kayak to float. Inflated beachballs jammed into your bow and stern is a stop gap that might work in a pinch, but you’ll be much safer with bulkheads and real float bags. I’d suggest one more consideration. While you may think you’ll mostly go for short paddles on flat water, a year from now you might discover that you really love racing, or negotiating rivers, or you WANT to go camping, or surfing is so much fun it’s worth a drive to be able to do it. Maybe you’ll find a group of paddle buddies who have faster boats that track better and you’ll want to keep up with them. You can anticipate that you’ll grow as a kayaker. So you can always sell your boat and buy a different one. You can own multiple kayaks for different purposes. You can also look for a versatile kayak that will lend itself to multiple uses. Transitional kayaks in the 14- 15 foot range are very versatile. You say you don’t have room for anything longer than 11 feet, but there are storage solutions that can make a slightly longer kayak possible–wall brackets, ceiling hoists, stands and boat covers, etc… You’re also likely to find lighter kayaks in the 14-15 foot range. The weight of your boat can make a real difference not just in being able to load and unload it from your car, but in getting to and in and out of put ins. Sometimes there are steps, rocks, drop offs, funky docks, etc… And it can make a difference in how much fun it is to paddle. For comparisons sake- the Perception Joyride weighs 50 lbs., The Pungo 105 weighs 47 lbs, the Riot Edge weighs 55 pounds. The Aspire is the lightest at 44 lbs. My Stellar Advantage 14 weighs 34 pounds. My husbands Current Designs Vision 140 weighs 42 pounds. Both these kayaks have skegs which help with tracking if the wind kicks up. They have bulkheads. They have storage. They have decent safety lines that make it easier to get back in them when we practice our self rescues. It was pointed out and rightly so that just because a kayak works well for one person that doesn’t mean it will work for you. I’d try to sit in each of the boats you’re considering. Paddle the boat before you buy it if at all possible. Here’s hoping you find a great boat the you will love.
Most manufacturers l have seen call the thing in front a deck pod. It is a comparatively newer feature in kayaks.
My boats with the day hatch behind the cockpit have been made with a day hatch there for 30 years.
Regardless of what you want to call it, my main point is that a hatch that intrudes into the cockpit can be a problem for the reasons I listed if it’s too deep. I was looking in old threads to see what people thought about this and I found this post from you: “I see a suggestion for an under-deck bag - it’s a moot point for me because there isn’t any room for that in my lower volume boats unless I want to assure I will have trouble doing a wet re-entry.” That’s exactly my point with the Delta front day hatch. I find it more difficult to enter and exit a Delta with this hatch, in addition to making it harder to use the space in front of your feet. Many reviewers do like the Delta day hatch. I once had an Old Town Cayuga with a very convenient shallow day hatch placed along the top of the deck rather than vertically. That’s a smart design for small items.
I see … Delta is the source of confusion. As Celia mentioned these were called day hatches throughout the community well before the appearance of the fore-deck pod. The latter goes by several names … deck pod, glove box, or whiskey hatch. Delta’s terminology is unfortunate, only engendering confusion.
Abbyg, all good advice, especially about not buying a boat without testing it. I personally valued stability, but If you enjoy kayaking, it won’t be your last boat or paddle. That’s when you can explore higher performance boats. You’ll find solutions to the cost, storing, transporting and handling any boat you want in the future, but make sure this boat is safe, stable and comfortable.
I started with a rec boat and got tired of the limitations. Each of the upgrade boat fixed some limitations of the last boat. Now I fortunate that I have a fleet for family and friends to use. If you don’t have the space, sell the boat to upgrade to offset the cost, so take care of the boat.
Remember, the boat has to fit your needs. As you venture further out, it takes longer to return; you’ll want a faster boat. As you get away from the protection of shorelines, you need to be able to handle adverse conditions, so be prepared to think upgrade. I initially bought my boat to fish and relax. I got on the edge of open water and looked at the opposite shore - how do I get there - better boat. I gave up on my original plan, and now when I gey in a kayak, it’s to explore. I don’t worry that the wind caused a small craft advisory, or that the current is strong and the waves high.
Convenience features are fine, but I bought a new waterproof Pelican every time I upgraded to a larger phone, and use the old case to store a key fob, wallet, phone and such. Many apps available to record trip statistics. I stash one or two, 2-liter water bottles behind the seat and bungee the chart case to the front deck and away I go.
Don’t buy a junk paddle. There are plenty of nice entry level paddles by reputable brands like Aqua Bound and Werner in the $139 to $289 range. Those paddles will take you through many kayak upgrades.
If you read back posts, you’ll find the answer to many questions, and even answer questions you never had. Get a comfortable boat and nice paddle and the obsession will grow; then you’ll have time to figure out the upgrade. You might even buy a paddle that cost more than your first boat.
QUOTE Celia: “I generally dress for the weather and the water, so additional fleece layers are not needed once l have launched.”
OK, so lake paddler launches at 8:00 a.m. on a clear October day and the temperature is 42 degrees. He’s wearing a long-sleeve shirt, fleece, and rainjacket. By 11:00 a.m. it’s 55 degrees. At 1:00 p.m. it’s 75. Still wearing the fleece and rain jacket??
I’ve encountered these temperature ranges hundreds of times. I’ve also seen plenty of places where landing is impossible for a very long time, especially in marshes.
The raincoat l use is a paklight cag. It goes back into the day hatch behind me w plenty of room. I don’t understand the need for a bulky raincoat on the water, there are tons of paddle jackets that go down to a small size. If they are waterproof and you are busy paddling they keep you warm.
If it is in the 40s when l start on a day that will end up being in the 70s, and btw that is hardly uncommon paddling the coat of Maine, l dress for the 50s and start out using the cag to make up the gap. That is more often than not a neoprene top, maybe short sleeved. Stuff the cag back in the day hatch when things get warmer.
Or maybe have a dry top over a rash guard, pull up on shore if need be to pull off the drytop and stick it somewhere. All l need for that is an edge of land l can stand on.
Honestly, l don’t get this fixation on a fleece top and a raincoat. Both of which are bulkier than the technical layers that are available from outfits like NRS and Kokatat and Outdoor Research etc. If you have just started paddling l can see balking at the sticker shock. But for someone w years of experience, there has been time to acquire technical layers that are more compact and effective.
The cag has several virtues, doesn’t it. It fits over everything, including the pfd and skirt. So no need to land to take it off or put it on. I always carry one. And if there is the possibility of hypothermia, on it goes. I consider it to be one of the pieces of my safety gear.
I actually have two, mine and my husband’s. I sold an amount of his stuff after he passed away, like the WW boats especially. But no way those cags leave.
It’s not just Delta Kayaks. The Old Town sells what they call a “Touring Day Hatch” on their website, though they also refer to it as “slide track day storage” on the page for the Castine. Hurricane offers the optional Sport Console which they describe “featuring an 8-inch day hatch” and while I know a lot of people on this website really don’t like Pelican kayaks, people new to the sport still may have seen Pelican kayaks which advertise a “10 cm day hatch” such as on the Pelican Sprint 120XR.
That suggests that ‘day hatch’ is ambiguous, now that deck pods are becoming common. I need to refine my terminology:
“day hatch” becomes “behind the cockpit bulkheaded day hatch”
“deck pod” becomes “in front of the cockpit deck pod”
My older 17.3 Étaín has both and the in front of the cockpit deck pod is removable, leaving a somewhat semi-spherical dent behind in the deck, a removability feature now discontinued.
If manufacturers are going to lake a mess of a term that had a consistent meaning as far back as 1990 there is little we can do.
HOWEVER, some involved in this debate purport to be seasoned kayakers. Not newbies who just read this first descriptions of kayak features in the last few years.
