google lake superior kayak instruction
Not AT ALL an instructor but…
– Last Updated: Sep-08-11 9:44 AM EST –
I've been dropping in and trying to follow this thread a bit because the discussion about ACA certs and instruction has gotten to be of more interest over the last year. But the back and forth is a little confusing. So this is what I am getting so far - do I have this right?
The rules for the ACA are that they have to be notified 24 hrs in advance of a class to get it logged in for insurance. The ACA can be contacted via phone and maybe online to get file for insurance for a given class.
If the class doesn't run, the instructor can refile for the insurance for another day. (I assume that means that they just don't send in the money until the class actually runs, or that the money paid can be rolled over to the new date when the class happens?)
There is a question about whether anyone is presently teaching rough water skills on the Great Lakes. I just a google search and knocked around to Bryan Hansel's page, took 4 minutes. His instruction includes rock gardening and surf. Personally I think of that as rough water work, but someone can always disagree. Of course Bryan may be on an entirely different lake than the OPer has in mind - the geography hasn't been narrowed much.
24 hours
Thanks for the reply Celia
The ACA instructors here can correct me if I’m wrong, but I think the classes have to be scheduled more than 24 hours in advance. 24 hours would potentially be workable, but I don’t think they allow that short notice.
Bryan is an ACA instructor, but its pretty clear from his description that his class is mainly a guided tour with skills practice and “surf some waves” being only if it is wanted and only if they are available, and he doesn’t even mention surf launches/landings. So that sounds pretty mellow. Also his paddling among some rocks doesn’t sound like advanced skills are required, it just sounds like paddling among some rocks. I think Bryan is on this site so perhaps he can comment.
You are the one
– Last Updated: Sep-08-11 12:40 PM EST –
who said people teach it all the time. I know where most all the instruction places are on Lake Superior, so I don't need to google that. Its up to you to show me who teaches it "all the time", even if they aren't on Lake Superior, because you are the one claiming it. The way I understand it even the ACA cert exams are weather dependent for higher levels, if you are testing on the Great Lakes. You can register and show up hoping to get L4 and if the weather doesn't cooperate you're out of luck...and money.
Here’s what I saw above
From paddlemore I think -
"One day ahead of time is pretty short notice for insurance and we are quite lucky to have that as ACA instructors. "
As to what constitutes rough water, I have heard this term used for stuff milder than what Hansel seems to say on his site as well as more so, from a variety of well-respected coaches. If you have a specific set of definitions in mind like wave height, period, Beauford level for winds, it might help to share that. Everything to date is subjective terminology that does not make for a good dialogue in the ether.
Same problem with talking about really advanced paddlers - without an associated specific skill set, ACA or BCU cert level (that includes this stuff) or exact past experience of conditions paddled in, it’s very hard to have this discussion.
its not up to me to show you anything
However. I know riverwindkayak and seakayakgeorgia teach several L4 courses per year. They are always weather dependent (not just in the great lakes). It is part of the risk your take. An L5 cert I was on could not be completed because the weather died down, another was called off because it was too rough. That is the nature of the business for the instructor and the clients.
It is referred to as the cost of doing business. You build it into your business plan and try to limit your losses. In Savannah, when the summer afternoon showers happen almost everyday, savannahcanoeandkayak stops offering afternoon tours as a way to manage financial loss due to that risk.
It’s Not
even winter here in the North…but this thread is reading like it should be about February:)
Quite the Thread (I must say)
Best Wishes
Roy
The way I see it . . .
The ACA provides a uniquely affordable way for instructors to buy insurance by-the-day. It’s a huge benefit for it’s members, and many ACA instructors take advantage of that insurance. I know one full-time east coast L5 ITE who has even dropped his own insurance plan in favor of using the ACA plan. If he can make it work, then surely you can too.
Or, if the reporting involved with buying daily insurance for your classes isn’t to your liking, then you can buy your own insurance that is always in effect. Obviously that’s more convenient, but it comes at a price.
Unfortunately we can’t have it both ways. You either pay for the deluxe version, or you deal with the compromises of the bargain alternative.
Absolutely
Nate, you took the words right out of my mouth!
Kayakman, it’s not about my ability to prove anything to you; you can take or leave anything I have to say, but it seems that every time you get boxed in by others you declare it off limits and no one is even discussing your skills except you.
The ACA offers insurance to instructors on a daily basis to teach courses covering material that falls within the skill set and conditions of your remit. In order to get that insurance you must be an accredited instructor with the ACA, be current in your 1st aid and CPR and request the insurance no less than 1 working day in advance - although you’ll pay a premium on top of the usual fee.
The alternative (and I have investigated it) is to pay between $500 and $700 per year for your own insurance and these prices still reflect accreditation. If you want to teach classes outside your remit you must purchase your own insurance as the ACA will not cover it. If someone gets injured in a class insured by the ACA you’d best be able to demonstrate that the conditions and skills being taught were within the remit.
Earlier you stated that I don’t know you, etc, etc. This is true. I don’t need to know you. Going simply by what you say her and the way you say it no one here will be able to satisfy you unless they agree with you. I don’t care whether you can surf 20’ waves in a hurricane while battling a sea dragon with a Swiss Army knife. That’s not the point; The point is can you teach? I’m not the person you’ll have to convince though, that’s the Instructor Trainer. So in the end, this discussion about insurance through the ACA is moot as you aren’t an ACA accredited instructor.
I will say that many of the other instructors I meet became instructors because they wanted to teach, not because they wanted insurance for teaching. A subtle but important difference.
Remit
Some may not understand the term “remit” that you used here. In this context “remit” is a noun and means:
“the area of authority or responsibility of an individual or a group: by taking that action, the committee has exceeded its remit” - World English Dictionary.
For all: the ACA insurance only covers your classes when you are coaching within the conditions you are certified to teach in.
Thanks
I forget that it’s not a common term many use unless they deal with ACA or BCU matters.
So how far in advance?
I’m coming into this well late and am shocked and surprised by the level of vim in what seems to be a simple conversation.
I’m not an ACA instructor. I have never researched insurance.
BUT… the first questions that come to mind are:
KayakMan - in your research with the ACA, what did you find the rule is for advanced notice? Is it 10-days? 24-hours? What are the rescheduling rules?
Amen!
Insurance
If you think your income is going to be double the insurance cost of $500 to $1000, I’d say go for private coverage vs. ACA coverage and expand into other areas of instruction. Private coverage is much more flexible and you can guide/instruct clients the same day that they call.
If I remember right, you can schedule insurance the day before the class with the ACA for an additional fee of $25. That’s a good option if you simply want to do rough water stuff and have a client list waiting for the right day. The ACA insurance works better for scheduling specific ACA classes ahead of time and marketing a specific date. It’s a good deal and I used to use it and may again in the future.
Since, I was mentioned specifically in this thread for my instruction/tours, I base my lessons on the reality of Minnesota’s shoreline around my area and what my customers want (we’re a tourism destination). Most of my clients aren’t looking for rough water instruction, and I don’t have a local beach that I consider safe for instructing beginners in surf landings and launching (most either dump or are very rocky). If the waves are up, I’ll cover it, but the sad fact of life on this shore is that the prevailing wind is offshore. When we get rough water, it’s usually bigger than my customers would want. Plus, right now it’s a side business for me. I essentially just do it for fun.
4 minutes
Yikes! I need to work on my SEO. I need to get that to position number 1. 
yes, yes, and visit the ACA website.
Since you asked and obviously didn’t visit my profile, I hold a number of ACA certifications in both kayaking and canoeing.
Yes, I have had to reschedule classes. When things go as planned, there isn’t additional expenses. When a date/location doesn’t work out, it doesn’t mean I’m punting, no, I already have a plan. Sometimes it means an additional fee. If you’re thinking about becoming an instructor and an additional $45 fee ruins your profitability, then you should re-asses your business motives.
If you are researching insurance and the ACA, what specific questions do you have that are not answered on the ACA insurance page? It’s easily found on the ACA website under the instructors link. This information isn’t hidden. Even Google can find it.
http://www.americancanoe.org/?page=Insurance_Instructor
As stated before, there are very few people looking for extreme rough water instruction on Lake Superior. Most of the extreme paddlers are instructors, and we’re out there making a living teaching novice paddlers in calmer conditions.
Good luck with your paddling endeavors.
I mentioned you
I was correct that you had experience in the situation the OPer was mentioning, even if it includes the experience that your customers prefer tamer stuff. But that may be what KMan would find as well if he were to actually pursue this plan… Thanks for the clarification re scheduling.