No knobby knees on the Batsto!
Freestyle canoeing definitely holds a draw for me.
I must admit, the first time paddling the tandem canoe down the French Broad, I was already entirely sold on using a single blade in a canoe. It has a more graceful feel than my double blades in a kayak. I’ve been playing with both sitting and kneeling. I’m figuring they both have their place, but when I was playing with edging, I nearly slid right off the seat a couple times. I can already tell that this Osprey will maneuver beautifully as my skills come up to the challenge. A loose hold on the paddle seems to be coming very naturally for me - thanks for suggesting that. This is all going to take some time. I hope I’m up to the challenge. Then again, there aren’t many more enjoyable challenges than tooling around the water with a paddle in hand.
Chris, get in touch we Tom Fink. He is a freestyle canoeist, on par with Marc Ornstein. He has been doing the freestyle stuff for many years. He likes to teach. I think he may still live, in Washington NC. He did your Oceans Symposium, once or twice. He is an ultra smooth paddler, in canoe or kayak.
Thanks! I’ll try to connect with him. We need an excuse for another trip to Washington sometime.
Another thing you might experiment is using hull “carving” to reduce the need for correction strokes. You have a background in kayaking and are familiar with edging and perhaps you have utilized hull carving in kayaks. But in my experience, kayakers tend to utilize hull carving less than canoeists, if at all. This is only natural since the symmetry of the double-bladed paddle stroke largely eliminates the need to use correction strokes or hull carving in order to go straight.
If you have not used hull carving, get the boat going with a bit of momentum and then edge the hull toward your paddle side with your weight well forward. Keep your strokes short and forward and see if you can get the hull turning in an arc toward your paddle side and keep it turning. By varying your stroke cadence, the angle of your paddle shaft, the degree of edging, how far forward you begin your stroke, and the length of your paddle stroke excursion, you can adjust the radius of the turning circle. With practice, you might be able to open up the circle to the point you are going in very nearly a straight line.
Once the bow of your canoe “falls off” to your off-side, you will need to do something like a cross-forward stroke, C stroke, J stroke, or stern pry to turn it back toward your on-side at which point you can initiate a new “inside circle”. Here is a reasonably good short article on hull carving by Andrew Westwood:
http://www.rapidmedia.com/rapid/categories/skills/5857-open-cane-technique-power-steering
If you get good at hull carving, you can dramatically reduce the amount of correction needed to travel in a nearly straight line. All hulls can be made to carve to some extent assuming they are correctly trimmed, although some do it much more willingly than others. To carve effectively, you want to un-weight the stern a bit to loosen it so that it can skid which might require you shifting your weight forward a bit. It has been a few years since I paddled an Osprey so I can’t recall how well it will carve an arc.
I paddle a lot like Guideboat guy describes. Very good description. I also carve or edge my canoe to some extent. What i am about to present is something I find works for me and keeps me from having to lift the weight of the paddle at the end of the stroke.
I have found I enjoy doing a modified in water recovery sort of like the knifing J stroke/Canadian stroke/indiian stroke. This means I don’t need to lift the paddle from the water, or if i do it is at the last of the forward return. Any correction can be done by the return angle of the blade. The power face is turned away from the hull like a J stroke. It gives a little bit of pry at the end of the stroke, and a bit of draw at the end of the return being controlled by the return angle. I do this with both my grey Owl Guide (sort of an ottertail), and my Fox bent shaft with which I do most of my paddling. I try to keep the stroke vertical and close to the hull, and then lower my top hand in toward my lap allowing the handle to rotate in my palm allowing the shaft to rotate in my lower hand as the thin blade (a thin blade offers less resistance) slices back forward a bit away from the hull. I have no idea what this stroke is called. It is easier to do than describe.
Very little twist of the wrist doing this as I rotate my hand from the top of the handle to the side of the of the handle and bring it down to rotate the shaft so the blade is somewhat parallel to the hull, but no longer vertical. I find it a relaxing way to paddle in calm water. I have seen old style handles that look like sort of a flat board at the top of the shaft. I suspect they may have been used this way, but don’t know.
You might be referring to the Maine Guide style of paddle like this one:
http://www.shawandtenney.com/engravableproduct/maine-guide
Or this one:
Here is a video demonstrating how they can be used:
@pblanc said:
You might be referring to the Maine Guide style of paddle like this one:
Yes, that is the type handle I was trying to describe. I knew it would have an advantage when holding from the side just looking at it. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. Now I want one!
The mechanics of his first demo stroke where it looks like he leaves the blade in the water is very much like the way I do my in water recovery. Only my hand starts the stroke on top of my more common style handle. When I do return the blade out of the water I will also face edge rather than the face of the blade into the wind. Never lifting it very high like he demonstrated. Less work to do it that way or to use an in water recovery. I guess being a bit lazy led me to this stroke! 
If you do this very quickly it’s the Northwoods stroke.
It’s a short fast cadenced stroke and the correction is supplied by the return of the paddle in the water. A slight lift while the leading edge is down
There is no j
The Northwoods is propulsion -correction with recovery
The J is propulsion -correction-recovery. Three phases
As the Northwoods is done with a more horizontal paddle that variable grip of the Maine Guide paddle is used. The grip hand doesn’t grip. It’s draped over the paddle
Yes most of the time the recovery does the correction and there is no pry when I do it. However, i came to it first by way of a knifing J stroke that I saw years ago in a canoeing book. A quick pry can be added if needed. It just sort of developed from there. Never having used a Maine Guide paddle I sort of rolled it in my palm when using a straight blade allowing it to change the power face of the blade with each stroke at the end of the recovery. Of course when doing this with a bent paddle the power face isn’t changed. Yes it can be a quick stroke, but seems easy and not tiring to me. I really like the way the recovery slices back through the water. I felt like it must have been done before and have a name, but just sort of fell into doing it. Thanks for your response I like this place because of all the knowledge so freely shared. A Northwoods stoke is a great name.
I should add I only grip at the beginning of the stroke, and have sort of what you describe as a hand draped over the side of the handle on the recovery.
@castoff said:
The power face is turned away from the hull like a J stroke. It gives a little bit of pry at the end of the stroke, and a bit of draw at the end of the return being controlled by the return angle. I do this with both my grey Owl Guide (sort of an ottertail), and my Fox bent shaft with which I do most of my paddling. I try to keep the stroke vertical and close to the hull, and then lower my top hand in toward my lap allowing the handle to rotate in my palm allowing the shaft to rotate in my lower hand as the thin blade (a thin blade offers less resistance) slices back forward a bit away from the hull. I have no idea what this stroke is called. It is easier to do than describe.
I think it is called an indian stroke, and you can see some of the freestyle paddlers in the video doing it. Rotating the blade is called a palm roll, so with each stroke the power face rotates. I don’t did it very often because I usually use a paddle with a T grip and a spooned blade, but when I use a more traditional paddle with a pear grip and the flat blade I can easily fall into this stroke.
Only old timers call it an Indian Stroke… But they did use it for hunting as blades flashing in the area spooked quarry
Its nowadays called the PC version …inwater recovery.
@eckilson said:
I think it is called an indian stroke, and you can see some of the freestyle paddlers in the video doing it. Rotating the blade is called a palm roll, so with each stroke the power face rotates. I don’t did it very often because I usually use a paddle with a T grip and a spooned blade, but when I use a more traditional paddle with a pear grip and the flat blade I can easily fall into this stroke.
I’ve heard that name too, when there’s an underwater recovery and the blade orientation turns 180 degrees from one power stroke to the next. I also use this stroke a lot and find it quite relaxing if not trying to go all that fast, and I always use it when there is some kind of animal up ahead that I hope to get closer to. I think the canoe looks a lot less obtrusive when approaching wildlife if there’s no paddle swinging around. You can make good progress, and soundless, even if the stroke is very short which thereby makes even the paddler’s arm movements become nearly imperceptible to that animal that’s watching me in these cases.
I do almost all my hunting with a longbow, but hunting from a boat for deer is illegal in my state. So I like to photograph wildlife when I paddle instead. It is always thrilling to me to have the animal close. One of the great pleasures of canoeing is the quiet propulsion and the zen like state of listening as we glide along.
@kayamedic said:
Only old timers call it an Indian Stroke… But they did use it for hunting as blades flashing in the area spooked quarry
Its nowadays called the PC version …inwater recovery.
Guess I’m an old timer now. Still do and still do. 
We’re a little behind the times here in Spudville.
I fall into the “Indian stroke” (here in Iroquois, Mohawk, and Algonquin canoe country we still use that term) a lot when I want to just cruise along at a relaxing relatively low speed for many reasons, maybe when approaching a deep water shore or dock, It offers a lot of control and options for much maneuvering depending on exactly how you angle or extend the blade and shaft. Often done when I am instructing a canoeing class so I can stay close to and watch a paddler as I speak to them on my onside without a lot of my own paddle making a distraction, or I can easily transition to demo any other stroke from it.
This is a perfect example of why to do stokes properly, especially the J as the basis (instead of the goony). It is easy to transition from a forward power stroke to a proper J, into the Canadian, into the “Indian”, or the C stroke and others. Why not blend all the strokes as needed and enjoyed? Do them effectively and efficiently.
@yknpdlr said:
This is a perfect example of why to do stokes properly, especially the J as the basis (instead of the goony). It is easy to transition from a forward power stroke to a proper J, into the Canadian, into the “Indian”, or the C stroke and others. Why not blend all the strokes as needed and enjoyed? Do them effectively and efficiently.
I agree, but it’s worth mentioning that this is not at all intuitive to a beginner. I am remembering that in my earlier, pre-learning phase in my canoeing life, when I went on numerous trips sponsored by clubs or outdoor programs in college, I always paddled in the stern of tandem canoes, and always used the goon stroke. Then, when I first started hanging out on p-net and first started solo canoeing, I felt that a true J-stroke was inherently an inefficient use of arm muscles (it gets into that cantilever vs. post functioning of the lower arm as I described above) and that the goon stroke made more sense. I don’t think I’m particularly stupid, but it was only after practice, practice, practice that I saw the error of my original thought process. I ditched the goon stroke (except for those occasional moments when a “stern pry” actually makes sense) and never looked back.
What I described above is what I do, but do not expect beginners to pick up right away. If I demonstrate what can be done with blended transitional strokes, I hope that it may influence the prospect in them of what they can eventually learn. My canoe instruction method has been influenced by the way I have observed Caleb Davis teach first time young paddlers, focussing on confidence building skills first, to make the canoe go straight (with goon stroke if necessary) before introducing more complexities (J-stroke, etc.) in later lessons.
Young children or anyone else who has never touched a paddle before will most likely become very frustrated at trying to make a canoe go straight for their first time in the boat, not a great experience for them. So when I teach someone like that, it is important for them to feel they have some control over the canoe. A variety of different stroke skills will seem impossible to them and are not at all important at that stage of skill learning. So I do in fact teach the thumb up goon rudder method at first to build their confidence and comfort in controlling the direction of the canoe.
Most often these new paddlers start out in a tandem canoe, so I ask the bow paddler to simply very slowly power paddle just enough to keep the canoe going at some slow velocity while the stern paddler experiments only with holding the paddle in comfortable thumb up rudder positions on one side of the canoe (opposite the bow paddler) to go left and right (and straight). Hold the rudder for control without paddling from the stern - play with ruddering just on one side to make the canoe go left and right and straight. Add one or two stern power strokes one at a time to keep up the speed (then go back to the rudder) as confidence in direction control is achieved.
When it clicks with them how to rudder in a straight line, then It is true when I say that “if you know how to make a canoe go straight, then you automatically already know how to make it turn”. When they are comfortable handling the paddle and are able to go in a somewhat straight line, then in the second or third lesson we move to other types of control, including the thumb down J ruddering with a few power strokes along with other common steering control and straight line strokes as they individually become ready to move on. Going to advanced strokes too early only leads to frustration and lack of interest and a poor learning situation.
I don’t remember when I learned the J stroke. Scouting most likely as I was using it as a teenager. In my twenties was when I learned the knifing J stroke and the names for draw and pry from a book. The knifing J was a revelation that I could return the paddle in the water by rotating it. I do remember trying to keep up paddling with a guy that would hit and switch. I thought you were suppose to paddle primarily from one side, and to constantly switch sides was wrong, but he was faster. So I learned something there too. Time, familiarity with paddling, and paddling small twisty streams and creeks is when connecting strokes developed. That lesson of the hit and switch taught me that whatever works is basically good, but also that there is often better.